Maybe the vehicles should have been tested where they are to be used, not a wind tunnel and These influences you speak of should not be as much as 50F. If that was the case, a flawed design was the cause.

I tested on the same road, two days apart, with the same load and nearly the same OAT. This shouldn't affect much of anything when it comes to variables. Facts are facts and the facts are obvious by a long shot.

The fact of the matter is that the radiator cooler is adding heat, not removing it. You can't cool anything with something that is already hot. Sounds stupid to you most likely but, poke around with a laser thermometer and you'll see what I mean. That radiator isn't much cooler than the engine, especially where the trans cooler is in the radiator.

I replaced this cooler with a air to liquid cooler and my temps lowered by 50F. I'm an rotorcraft technician by trade. I have never seen an aircraft with a pre-heated cooling system. There are oil to fuel heat exchangers as the fuel is cool in the tanks and turbine engines operate better with heated fuel, but there is never an occurrence where one warm liquid is meant for cooling another warm liquid. It makes no sense.

I suddenly have no more interest in spending time on this. Goodbye.

 

You do realize that mark is a retired Ford trans engineer huh ?



The rad does not add heat.

The engine coolant is cooler then the trans fluid.

If you take a bucket of oil that 100* and drop another bucket of oil in it that's 150*
The cooler oil will cool the hot oil.

Working in the A&P field is completely different than working in the automobile field.

Goodbye to you

 

You're just making things up. Of course they are verified on the road, but back to back testing is done in a tunnel.

The only thing that is obvious is that you have no idea of what you're doing and you're not willing to listen to anyone else.

The fact of the matter is that you don't know what you're talking about.

I HAVE measured all the temperatures in question. I measured ATF in and out of the radiator, water in and out of the radiator, and even had a thermocouple in the radiator near the trans cooler. The ATF going into the radiator was hotter than coming out. I've tested that in ambients from -40°F to +115°F both in tunnels and on the road.

Then either you don't know what you're doing, or the cooler is failed, or your conditions are so different from one test to another that your data is useless. Just from reading the drivel that you write it's probably all three.

I've never seen a truck with a pre-heated cooling system. You haven't, either. If you think you have it's because you don't know what you're looking at.

I think your problem is that you don't understand what a radiator does. It cools the engine coolant. The coolant coming into the radiator is MUCH warmer than the coolant leaving the radiator. Depending on many variables that difference can be more than 100°F.

So if the coolant leaving the engine is 200°F the temperature around the transmission cooler can be cooler than 100°F. Do you think that 100°F coolant can cool the transmission? Probably not. I've studied thermodynamics, I know that it can.0

Finally something we can agree on! I'm tired of explaining, and you're too closed minded to learn. Good riddance.

 

Ok not to beat a dead horse here but you put the aftermarket trans cooler after the rad cooler right? Liquid to liquid will get it down to or close to coolant temp then the air to liquid brings it down farther correct?

 

lol....wow you 2 @Mark and @18436572..... interesting topic overall. Loved the debate though a little heated. I won't say who I agree with to avoid more fuel, but thanks to you both for informing and teaching me.

 

When it comes to a trans I'd take Marks word over anyone on this site. No offense to anyone

 

While I will say go for it as I have both my rad coolers bypassed also, you do realize where the rad cooler is the water temp is only 140º-165º.....I think your rad cooler is plugged and the added restriction was heating the oil.

Diesel Rod

 

Yes, that's correct, but keep in mind the coolant temp where the trans cooler is located can be A LOT cooler than the thermostat temp, or the engine temp read on a gauge.

 

Mine (rad cooler) reads about 140°-150° and I have a temp sensor for it, along with 2 other temp sensors for the block (1 stock 1 aftermarket).... and 1 air trans cooler in front. On an always fully loaded Chevy...1-2 thousand pounds due to my tools and equipment. I also have a pusher and puller fan on either side of my rad and cooler set up.

 

Alrighty good thing I have some extra hose to re route it haha

 

This weekend I installed a trans temp, pyro, boost gauge, as well as a true cool. The front of my '97 looks almost identical to the pics one the first page. I followed the lines from the tiny (stock?) cooler back to the trans. the bottom line was the return. I tied that bottom line into the driver side of the true cool (mounted behind the bumper), and the passenger side into the return line.
I did all of this in one shot, so unfortunately I don't have any (before) temp numbers for comparison.
I added 1 1/4 quarts fluid. Ran 2 miles to the parts store. There, I checked for leaks and added another 1/4 quart. Ran down the interstate 5-6 miles, pulled over, checked for leaks and added 1/4 quart.
Temps were running approx. 144*-148* now she is getting warmed up.
Pushed her for the 7-8 miles back to the house. Never got over 155*
Ambient was 91* or so.

So far, I'm satisfied with these numbers.
This is only the beginning. I'll have more temps with 8k trailer later on.

 

People like you make me cringe. You lead yourself to BELIEVE you are better than someone and set out in any way possible to prove that you are.

You have no reason to explain anything. I too understand thermodynamic terms as used in convection, radiation and conduction and really any other technical lines of bull**** you want to use at this time to reaffirm your need for social dominance. I understand how the heat energy should be transferred from the ATF to the coolant but alas, this is either not happening here or is very inefficient and is causing a heating issue that can (so far) only be remedied by deletion of the liquid to liquid cooler.

Yes, I do understand that liquid conducts heat much better than air, and that is why my issue is puzzling to me. My only conclusion is that the coolant in the radiator is just below that of the engine. Since the engine is running at nearly 210 degrees, the radiator SHOULD be near 150-160 degrees to allow for proper heat management. While poking around with a laser thermometer, I recorded temperatures near the transmission cooler in the radiator of nearly 180 degrees. Since we can assume the heated fluid being pumped to that cooler is likely 225, the radiator should be cooling the ATF to a much lower temp. The liquid to air cooler further cools the ATF to a more manageable temperature and the ATF is returned to the pan much cooler than when introduced. It is obvious that this is not happening as so many are having the same issues. Since most can cure this by the addition of a larger liquid to air cooler, the problem can only be attributed to a faulty, restricted or inefficent liquid to liquid cooler.

Since in my case, I cannot alleviate this problem by replacing the poorly sized stock liquid to air cooler, I conclude that the liquid to liquid cooler is the culprit. By removing this from the system, the temperatures have stabilized at a much lower temperature and are easier to manage. The temperature raises under load and is quickly dissipated when load is relieved. This process was not possible with the liquid to liquid cooler installed. The temperature would climb and climb until it topped out at nearly 300 degrees and the only cure was to shut the truck off. My radiator is brand new so I assume that the liquid to liquid cooler is serviceable.

By "pre-heated" I meant that the coolant in the radiator is already carrying heat from the engine and any heat that is already present reduces the cooling efficiency of the liquid to liquid transmission cooler and just adding to the problem. I fiqured you might be able to wrap your mind around that, but as we can see here, I was wrong.

Lastly, as for your feeble attempts at dismissing me as incompetent or invalid, **** you. I dont care who the hell you were, are or claim to be. You Sir, are simply an *******.

There is no need to retaliate as you won't get the chance. This account will likely be deleted post-haste by crooked moderation.

 

1843, I disagree. Its important to have the radiator trans cooler in the loop. For one thing it helps the trans warm up in the winter. When I first started reading this thread I had to double check to see if I was in the right forum because like Jose, that sure looks like the stock trans cooler for a OBS. I know you did some testing but conditions must have been different. Hopely Mark will weigh back in. I put the 31 row 6.0 trans cooler in mine and it runs about 170° pulling hard.

I'm not trying to start an argument but this is my opinion, use the radiator cooler in conjunction with a external cooler.

PS, did you put the thermostat in that came with the cooler? I never had any luck with them and tossed it.

 

WoW, I made a mistake and didn't see the second page of this thread before I posted. My post above means nothing after the discussion above.

 

NO IT DOES NOT.