Tranny Cooler?
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,408
Likes: 75
From: Plankinton, SD
I have not seen over 205 with the radiator hooked in line with my tru cool. That's pulling my 16k trailer in 95* weather, with a hefty side wind. Everything I've read says to run it this way, and it works great for me. I think the problem with 18436572 cooling system is he had too much restriction with 3 coolers hooked up, causing high heat. In my opinion get rid of the stacked cooler and run the radiator and another one.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,505
Likes: 18
From: Livoina,La
I beg to differ.
I just tested this theory last weekend and indeed, use of the radiator cooler is countering the cooling effect of the air to liquid cooler. I tested this on a 3.5 hour trip up and down several grades on the way to Verona, in the mountains of VA.
First of all, my rig is a 1995 PSD F250 E4OD SCLB 4X4. I have a triple disk converter, 3.55 gearing and all synthetic fluids recently changed. My truck is not lifted and is sitting on 235/85-16 E rated tires. I have a TS-6 position tuner with canned tunes, a 3" downpipe and cat delete pipe, deleted muffler and 6637 filter. The trailer I towed was 30ft, 7800lbs.
Going to the destination I used a 9 row, 20" long stock cooler from a 2001 PSD along with a Derale 12"x12" plate and fin cooler that has a 12" electric fan installed, the radiator cooler was NOT installed. The first 1.5 hours of driving are in flat areas with scattered traffic lights throughout. Trans temp hovered around 185* for the most part until climbing and decending grades. Temp climbed to a high of 225* but no higher.
Second part, back home. Installed radiator cooler into system (brand new radiator, cooler never used previously), along with 9 row 20" cooler. Temp SHOT to 200* in under 10 minutes in light traffic, without the trailer while testing for leaks. On the way home, on grades towing the trailer temp climbed to nearly 250* before I pulled over. I IMMEDIATELY removed the radiator cooler from the system and reintroduced the derale/fan cooler.
Temps stabilized at 215-220* on grades and down to 185* in the flats. There is no way in hell that the liquid cooler is correct for this application. When you have an engine that runs at 215* and a transmission that shouldnt exceed temps of 235*ish, what sense does it make introducing heat that close to its max temp???
My 2 cents; disconnect radiator cooler, get a decent tru-cool, mount it in your bumper, grab a beer and congratulate yourself for saving your transmission from poor engineering.
I just tested this theory last weekend and indeed, use of the radiator cooler is countering the cooling effect of the air to liquid cooler. I tested this on a 3.5 hour trip up and down several grades on the way to Verona, in the mountains of VA.
First of all, my rig is a 1995 PSD F250 E4OD SCLB 4X4. I have a triple disk converter, 3.55 gearing and all synthetic fluids recently changed. My truck is not lifted and is sitting on 235/85-16 E rated tires. I have a TS-6 position tuner with canned tunes, a 3" downpipe and cat delete pipe, deleted muffler and 6637 filter. The trailer I towed was 30ft, 7800lbs.
Going to the destination I used a 9 row, 20" long stock cooler from a 2001 PSD along with a Derale 12"x12" plate and fin cooler that has a 12" electric fan installed, the radiator cooler was NOT installed. The first 1.5 hours of driving are in flat areas with scattered traffic lights throughout. Trans temp hovered around 185* for the most part until climbing and decending grades. Temp climbed to a high of 225* but no higher.
Second part, back home. Installed radiator cooler into system (brand new radiator, cooler never used previously), along with 9 row 20" cooler. Temp SHOT to 200* in under 10 minutes in light traffic, without the trailer while testing for leaks. On the way home, on grades towing the trailer temp climbed to nearly 250* before I pulled over. I IMMEDIATELY removed the radiator cooler from the system and reintroduced the derale/fan cooler.
Temps stabilized at 215-220* on grades and down to 185* in the flats. There is no way in hell that the liquid cooler is correct for this application. When you have an engine that runs at 215* and a transmission that shouldnt exceed temps of 235*ish, what sense does it make introducing heat that close to its max temp???
My 2 cents; disconnect radiator cooler, get a decent tru-cool, mount it in your bumper, grab a beer and congratulate yourself for saving your transmission from poor engineering.
2nd. Running the rad cooler doesn't add heat to the system it helps remove it.
The coolant will/is cooler than the trans fluid
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,623
Likes: 0
From: Rockford IL
I beg to differ.
I just tested this theory last weekend and indeed, use of the radiator cooler is countering the cooling effect of the air to liquid cooler. I tested this on a 3.5 hour trip up and down several grades on the way to Verona, in the mountains of VA.
First of all, my rig is a 1995 PSD F250 E4OD SCLB 4X4. I have a triple disk converter, 3.55 gearing and all synthetic fluids recently changed. My truck is not lifted and is sitting on 235/85-16 E rated tires. I have a TS-6 position tuner with canned tunes, a 3" downpipe and cat delete pipe, deleted muffler and 6637 filter. The trailer I towed was 30ft, 7800lbs.
Going to the destination I used a 9 row, 20" long stock cooler from a 2001 PSD along with a Derale 12"x12" plate and fin cooler that has a 12" electric fan installed, the radiator cooler was NOT installed. The first 1.5 hours of driving are in flat areas with scattered traffic lights throughout. Trans temp hovered around 185* for the most part until climbing and decending grades. Temp climbed to a high of 225* but no higher.
Second part, back home. Installed radiator cooler into system (brand new radiator, cooler never used previously), along with 9 row 20" cooler. Temp SHOT to 200* in under 10 minutes in light traffic, without the trailer while testing for leaks. On the way home, on grades towing the trailer temp climbed to nearly 250* before I pulled over. I IMMEDIATELY removed the radiator cooler from the system and reintroduced the derale/fan cooler.
Temps stabilized at 215-220* on grades and down to 185* in the flats. There is no way in hell that the liquid cooler is correct for this application. When you have an engine that runs at 215* and a transmission that shouldnt exceed temps of 235*ish, what sense does it make introducing heat that close to its max temp???
My 2 cents; disconnect radiator cooler, get a decent tru-cool, mount it in your bumper, grab a beer and congratulate yourself for saving your transmission from poor engineering.
I just tested this theory last weekend and indeed, use of the radiator cooler is countering the cooling effect of the air to liquid cooler. I tested this on a 3.5 hour trip up and down several grades on the way to Verona, in the mountains of VA.
First of all, my rig is a 1995 PSD F250 E4OD SCLB 4X4. I have a triple disk converter, 3.55 gearing and all synthetic fluids recently changed. My truck is not lifted and is sitting on 235/85-16 E rated tires. I have a TS-6 position tuner with canned tunes, a 3" downpipe and cat delete pipe, deleted muffler and 6637 filter. The trailer I towed was 30ft, 7800lbs.
Going to the destination I used a 9 row, 20" long stock cooler from a 2001 PSD along with a Derale 12"x12" plate and fin cooler that has a 12" electric fan installed, the radiator cooler was NOT installed. The first 1.5 hours of driving are in flat areas with scattered traffic lights throughout. Trans temp hovered around 185* for the most part until climbing and decending grades. Temp climbed to a high of 225* but no higher.
Second part, back home. Installed radiator cooler into system (brand new radiator, cooler never used previously), along with 9 row 20" cooler. Temp SHOT to 200* in under 10 minutes in light traffic, without the trailer while testing for leaks. On the way home, on grades towing the trailer temp climbed to nearly 250* before I pulled over. I IMMEDIATELY removed the radiator cooler from the system and reintroduced the derale/fan cooler.
Temps stabilized at 215-220* on grades and down to 185* in the flats. There is no way in hell that the liquid cooler is correct for this application. When you have an engine that runs at 215* and a transmission that shouldnt exceed temps of 235*ish, what sense does it make introducing heat that close to its max temp???
My 2 cents; disconnect radiator cooler, get a decent tru-cool, mount it in your bumper, grab a beer and congratulate yourself for saving your transmission from poor engineering.
But exactly as Mike said... two coolers will cause restriction and increase temps.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,725
Likes: 2,651
From: SE Florida
I HAVE tested with and without the radiator cooler under EXACTLY the same conditions. The only way to get the EXACT same conditions is in a wind tunnel. Testing on the road introduces variables that affect the results and without some very serious data collection and analysis you can't even see that the results may or may not be valid.
The radiator cooler ALWAYS cools the ATF. Always. It NEVER heats the ATF. I have tested this in ambient conditions from -40 to +115°F. That's an absolute.
Now it is VERY possible to install the radiator cooler incorrectly and cause higher temperatures. If it is not the first cooler from the trans it is going to cause the ATF to run hotter. If there are too many coolers in the circuit (radiator plus two air to oil coolers) there will be enough restriction to flow that the overall cooling will be less than if there were only two, not three coolers.
So the earlier poster could be correct that adding the radiator cooler to his circuit made it run hotter. That isn't poor engineering by the manufacturer, that is an end user that doesn't know how to engineer a product and doesn't truly understand how a transmission works.
The radiator cooler ALWAYS cools the ATF. Always. It NEVER heats the ATF. I have tested this in ambient conditions from -40 to +115°F. That's an absolute.
Now it is VERY possible to install the radiator cooler incorrectly and cause higher temperatures. If it is not the first cooler from the trans it is going to cause the ATF to run hotter. If there are too many coolers in the circuit (radiator plus two air to oil coolers) there will be enough restriction to flow that the overall cooling will be less than if there were only two, not three coolers.
So the earlier poster could be correct that adding the radiator cooler to his circuit made it run hotter. That isn't poor engineering by the manufacturer, that is an end user that doesn't know how to engineer a product and doesn't truly understand how a transmission works.
FOREIGN GURU
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,655
Likes: 7
From: Celaya, Gto. MX
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Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: West Haven, CT
Did a lot of digging, turns out it was a transmission cooler, not a power steering. It connects to the tranny through the radiator, the engine was out so long, I forgot where the lines came from... Apparently the truck came with the option of a p/s cooler, when the plow was put on it they upgraded the tranny cooler. Thanks for all the help and reference!!
FOREIGN GURU
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,655
Likes: 7
From: Celaya, Gto. MX
Did a lot of digging, turns out it was a transmission cooler, not a power steering. It connects to the tranny through the radiator, the engine was out so long, I forgot where the lines came from... Apparently the truck came with the option of a p/s cooler, when the plow was put on it they upgraded the tranny cooler. Thanks for all the help and reference!!
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,417
Likes: 4
From: Braham MN
Both my auto equipped trucks have the rad cooler bypassed and other then some longer trans temp warm up times I'm happy with where they sit temp wise. I think the one on the '97 was plugging because it actually cools a lil better with it bypassed.
FWIW, where the rad cooler is located in the rad, it's the coolest point of the cooling system....It will cool the ATF, if not plugged...
Diesel Rod
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,725
Likes: 2,651
From: SE Florida
The radiator does NOT warm the ATF on cold starts.
Testing in a wind tunnel is the only way to do a true back to back comparison. What you are testing on the road is influenced so heavily by other things that you don't know if the differences you see are due to the changes you made or the changes in operating conditions. You don't know what you don't know. But I'm glad you're happy with what you have, even though it isn't what you think it is.
Testing in a wind tunnel is the only way to do a true back to back comparison. What you are testing on the road is influenced so heavily by other things that you don't know if the differences you see are due to the changes you made or the changes in operating conditions. You don't know what you don't know. But I'm glad you're happy with what you have, even though it isn't what you think it is.
Junior User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
I have not seen over 205 with the radiator hooked in line with my tru cool. That's pulling my 16k trailer in 95* weather, with a hefty side wind. Everything I've read says to run it this way, and it works great for me. I think the problem with 18436572 cooling system is he had too much restriction with 3 coolers hooked up, causing high heat. In my opinion get rid of the stacked cooler and run the radiator and another one.
I went back to the two air to liquid coolers after and it cooled back to 180.
Did you even read my post?
Junior User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
I HAVE tested with and without the radiator cooler under EXACTLY the same conditions. The only way to get the EXACT same conditions is in a wind tunnel. Testing on the road introduces variables that affect the results and without some very serious data collection and analysis you can't even see that the results may or may not be valid.
The radiator cooler ALWAYS cools the ATF. Always. It NEVER heats the ATF. I have tested this in ambient conditions from -40 to +115°F. That's an absolute.
Now it is VERY possible to install the radiator cooler incorrectly and cause higher temperatures. If it is not the first cooler from the trans it is going to cause the ATF to run hotter. If there are too many coolers in the circuit (radiator plus two air to oil coolers) there will be enough restriction to flow that the overall cooling will be less than if there were only two, not three coolers.
So the earlier poster could be correct that adding the radiator cooler to his circuit made it run hotter. That isn't poor engineering by the manufacturer, that is an end user that doesn't know how to engineer a product and doesn't truly understand how a transmission works.
The radiator cooler ALWAYS cools the ATF. Always. It NEVER heats the ATF. I have tested this in ambient conditions from -40 to +115°F. That's an absolute.
Now it is VERY possible to install the radiator cooler incorrectly and cause higher temperatures. If it is not the first cooler from the trans it is going to cause the ATF to run hotter. If there are too many coolers in the circuit (radiator plus two air to oil coolers) there will be enough restriction to flow that the overall cooling will be less than if there were only two, not three coolers.
So the earlier poster could be correct that adding the radiator cooler to his circuit made it run hotter. That isn't poor engineering by the manufacturer, that is an end user that doesn't know how to engineer a product and doesn't truly understand how a transmission works.
2. This caused high temp.
3. I never ever had 3 coolers connected at one time.
Junior User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Once again for those who refuse to read or comprehend my original post;
I have currently no radiator cooler connected, one 2001 psd stacked plate cooler and one 12"x12" plate and fin cooler with a fan. My temps hover between 170-185 in traffic unloaded, 185 towing 8k in the flats and it climbs to 225 in grades.
When REMOVING the 12"x12" cooler from the system and CONNECTING the radiator cooler as the first cooler in line, temps reach above 200 unloaded and 250 towing. This is CRAP.
Lets go back further in time now, shall we?
One year ago, old radiator, old stock air to liquid cooler. I installed a trans temp gauge as I was curious where it was at. Drove it once and parked it. In light traffic unloaded it was hitting 265 and I saw 300 while accelerating heavy from a light. I literally thought the gauge was bad,but it wasn't. Determined torque converter was allowing too much torque to be wasted as heat while unlocked, replaced with triple disk and cut old converter apart to find warped and eroded turbine. This was the main cause of heat generation. The truck had 230k on the original trans and to converter. Something had to wear out.
I no longer get the torque converter "jump" when it locks and temps subsided somewhat. In the meantime the radiator developed a leak so I replaced it and also removed the liquid to liquid cooler at that time and installed the stacked plate cooler. Temps unloaded never reached 230 after that. My trans is not slipping and all of the lines have been replaced. There is not a restriction. I then added the cooler with the fan and that is where I'm at now. 170-180 unloaded and 225 max while towing uphill with 8k on.
The transmission cooler in the radiator IS adding heat to your trans cooling system. I don't care what anyone says, they are wrong. Using a source of heat that is higher than the temp you want your trans to be is NOT going to cool it. air, liquid or whatever.
I will be getting a tru cool soon and removing both the 2001 psd and derale coolers. I will NOT be reconnecting the radiator cooler.