Engine Failure at 44,600 Miles
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Cross-Country
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
Likes: 2
From: Diamond Bar, CA
This whole deal with this engine isn't looking good. The dealer just old me that they are still waiting on the egr, turbo and intercooler to get in. They have known about this since Tuesday at the latest. I told the dealer I guess Ford has never heard of air freight. Plus it's a commercial truck and I need it for work. I hate to say it but this will be the last Ford commercial truck I ever buy. If it's not done Tuesday night I'll be on the phone to Ford talking to them about this.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 7
They switched to high pressure common rail, HPCR, because it allowed way more control over the injectors than previous.
They allow several injections per injection event, and even on the exhuast stroke, to complete a regen of the DPF.
The new system burns cleaner, which was required by the EPA, and also allows cleaner combustion.
The downside; the new systems use fuel pumps, that can pump to almost 30,000 PSI, and if they get water in them, they don't like it. The metal can shave off filings, and those can get pumped into the injectors.
If the injector on a common rail engine gets fouled, it can potentially just sit there and spray fuel, until a piston burns out, or the oil fills with fuel, etc... and engine is toast.
They allow several injections per injection event, and even on the exhuast stroke, to complete a regen of the DPF.
The new system burns cleaner, which was required by the EPA, and also allows cleaner combustion.
The downside; the new systems use fuel pumps, that can pump to almost 30,000 PSI, and if they get water in them, they don't like it. The metal can shave off filings, and those can get pumped into the injectors.
If the injector on a common rail engine gets fouled, it can potentially just sit there and spray fuel, until a piston burns out, or the oil fills with fuel, etc... and engine is toast.
Does Ford or GM have any idea how many sales they are losing do to this new technology?
There are some great deals on new 6.7's and I have actually been thinking about trading this fall, but I need to own my truck out of warranty. I have no fear at all about the 6.8 out of warranty.
Why has Ford or GM allowed this? And I know I am not the only person thinking like this as I have seen gasser after gasser replacing older diesels trucks. I don't want a 6.2 when I need a new truck. I would have figured that Ford was the most likely to have the best diesel option after the 6.0 fiasco. And yes, I had a 6.0. I loved that truck but apparently it didn't love me!
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,096
Likes: 26
From: Mesa AZ
Ford lost far fewer sales than if they would have stayed with the Navistar program. Navistar gambled on strictly EGR and lost. Ford had no choice but to design their own diesel and use DPF and SCR....its really the only practical way to meet the emissions standards. All manufacturers are in the same boat.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Thanks for explaining this.
Does Ford or GM have any idea how many sales they are losing do to this new technology?
There are some great deals on new 6.7's and I have actually been thinking about trading this fall, but I need to own my truck out of warranty. I have no fear at all about the 6.8 out of warranty.
Why has Ford or GM allowed this? And I know I am not the only person thinking like this as I have seen gasser after gasser replacing older diesels trucks. I don't want a 6.2 when I need a new truck. I would have figured that Ford was the most likely to have the best diesel option after the 6.0 fiasco. And yes, I had a 6.0. I loved that truck but apparently it didn't love me!
Does Ford or GM have any idea how many sales they are losing do to this new technology?
There are some great deals on new 6.7's and I have actually been thinking about trading this fall, but I need to own my truck out of warranty. I have no fear at all about the 6.8 out of warranty.
Why has Ford or GM allowed this? And I know I am not the only person thinking like this as I have seen gasser after gasser replacing older diesels trucks. I don't want a 6.2 when I need a new truck. I would have figured that Ford was the most likely to have the best diesel option after the 6.0 fiasco. And yes, I had a 6.0. I loved that truck but apparently it didn't love me!
Unfortunately the days of owning a diesel out of warranty without the requisite large bank account are just about over IMHO. Every one of these engines, Dodge and GM inclusive, are complex enough that expensive failures are almost inevitable at some point. Between the high pressure injection system, EGR, and SCR there is enough to scare me from owning one out of warranty. My V10-powered Excursion doesn't make me nervous without a warranty, but my EcoBoost F150 might.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,783
Likes: 1
From: WY
I think Ford does have the best option at this point. The 6.7L is the newest design on the market at this point which carries lots of advantages. Unlike the D-max, where they are pushing the limits of the design, this engine was designed from the ground up for the power levels that it's producing. There are some catastrophic failures that happen, like what happened to the OP, but those are relatively few and far between.
Unfortunately the days of owning a diesel out of warranty without the requisite large bank account are just about over IMHO. Every one of these engines, Dodge and GM inclusive, are complex enough that expensive failures are almost inevitable at some point. Between the high pressure injection system, EGR, and SCR there is enough to scare me from owning one out of warranty. My V10-powered Excursion doesn't make me nervous without a warranty, but my EcoBoost F150 might.
Unfortunately the days of owning a diesel out of warranty without the requisite large bank account are just about over IMHO. Every one of these engines, Dodge and GM inclusive, are complex enough that expensive failures are almost inevitable at some point. Between the high pressure injection system, EGR, and SCR there is enough to scare me from owning one out of warranty. My V10-powered Excursion doesn't make me nervous without a warranty, but my EcoBoost F150 might.
Nice truck Tom.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,865
Likes: 34
From: Annandale, VA
While the design is older I see no qualitative proof that the Cummins or Duramax are "stretching the limits"of their design. Hell there are much older heavy duty engine platforms that are going fine without clean sheet redesigns. Ford was forced to because of their choice to pick Navistar as a primary supplier.
All new modern engines are being built more and more complicated in order to squeeze the most efficiency out of them as possible. The 6.2 is the rare bird that was designed with older proven technology.
All new modern engines are being built more and more complicated in order to squeeze the most efficiency out of them as possible. The 6.2 is the rare bird that was designed with older proven technology.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 6
From: Whitecourt AB, Canada
I believe that all technology should continue to be pushed and advanced, whether it's motor vehicles, combustion engines in general, electronics, or pretty much anything we use these days. I don't want to buy a new product and have it be exactly the same as it was 7 years ago, then what kind of new product is that? No, new does not necessarily mean better but how would you know unless you tried it in the real world?
What if emissions standards never came up, the business relationship with International was great, and Ford kept using the 7.3L today? So you'd buy a 2013 truck and it would have the same engine as your 1999 truck that you are trying to replace. Well what have we accomplished here?
I look at brand new F-450 chassis cabs that show up at work and I go 'Man, they still make that Modular V10?'
Apply the same concept to consumer electronics or your personal computer... yes my 386 works great, still does, I use it to program PIC microcontrollers.... but that doesn't mean I want to buy a new computer today and have it equipped with a 386 just because it's tried and true.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
I say this on all the truck forums that I participate on, over and over again...
I believe that all technology should continue to be pushed and advanced, whether it's motor vehicles, combustion engines in general, electronics, or pretty much anything we use these days. I don't want to buy a new product and have it be exactly the same as it was 7 years ago, then what kind of new product is that? No, new does not necessarily mean better but how would you know unless you tried it in the real world?
What if emissions standards never came up, the business relationship with International was great, and Ford kept using the 7.3L today? So you'd buy a 2013 truck and it would have the same engine as your 1999 truck that you are trying to replace. Well what have we accomplished here?
I look at brand new F-450 chassis cabs that show up at work and I go 'Man, they still make that Modular V10?'
Apply the same concept to consumer electronics or your personal computer... yes my 386 works great, still does, I use it to program PIC microcontrollers.... but that doesn't mean I want to buy a new computer today and have it equipped with a 386 just because it's tried and true.
I believe that all technology should continue to be pushed and advanced, whether it's motor vehicles, combustion engines in general, electronics, or pretty much anything we use these days. I don't want to buy a new product and have it be exactly the same as it was 7 years ago, then what kind of new product is that? No, new does not necessarily mean better but how would you know unless you tried it in the real world?
What if emissions standards never came up, the business relationship with International was great, and Ford kept using the 7.3L today? So you'd buy a 2013 truck and it would have the same engine as your 1999 truck that you are trying to replace. Well what have we accomplished here?
I look at brand new F-450 chassis cabs that show up at work and I go 'Man, they still make that Modular V10?'
Apply the same concept to consumer electronics or your personal computer... yes my 386 works great, still does, I use it to program PIC microcontrollers.... but that doesn't mean I want to buy a new computer today and have it equipped with a 386 just because it's tried and true.
Some excellent thoughts.
I suppose one could argue, that a 7.3 pulled a camper 20 years ago, and a 7.3 could still pull a camper today....
True, but emissions laws made the injection technology impossible to continue with.
New emission laws made older engines obsolete.
Not only that, but I wonder what kind of market share ford would have right now, competing with a 270 HP 7.3....
People (not ford) are the reason that more and more power gets jammed into these units.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
all I hear is diesel = expensive repair, must have warranty
not good as I would like to keep this truck 20 years, maybe I should get this out of my head right now
I just bought 2013 diesel f350 a couple weeks ago. Best add on to the 3 year 36K b-b was a 125K 7 year b-b. This was the best I could buy and its was around $3000 for the added protection. Glad I'm covered
not good as I would like to keep this truck 20 years, maybe I should get this out of my head right now
I just bought 2013 diesel f350 a couple weeks ago. Best add on to the 3 year 36K b-b was a 125K 7 year b-b. This was the best I could buy and its was around $3000 for the added protection. Glad I'm covered
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 31
From: Nevada
Yup
Yup, after my 6.0 I truly believe that these trucks need to be driven and not sit. They also need meticulous maintenance by the owner not just the dealer, fuel water separators, fuel filters etc.... Cant trust the dealer to baby your rides.....My buds 6.0 is going fully Monty with injectors, glow plugs, head studs, egr delete...yada yada yada..... 
I guess my personal believe is that these engines are hybrid high tech monsters on the edge of technology to meet EPA standards and compete with the other big manufactures.... All of this is why i did a true gut check on what i actually used my super-duty for and figured i would be ok trying a 5.0 f150 out... so far so good, i do miss the heavy chassis of the super-duty, but i feel pretty comfortable with the gas v8 
I think its safe to say the 7.3 was the last simple Diesel we will ever see. Dunno, I feel for guys with these engine stories and it pisses me off to think of someone dropping 50k on a truck that blows up with less than 50,000 miles on it 
I guess my personal believe is that these engines are hybrid high tech monsters on the edge of technology to meet EPA standards and compete with the other big manufactures.... All of this is why i did a true gut check on what i actually used my super-duty for and figured i would be ok trying a 5.0 f150 out... so far so good, i do miss the heavy chassis of the super-duty, but i feel pretty comfortable with the gas v8 I think its safe to say the 7.3 was the last simple Diesel we will ever see. Dunno, I feel for guys with these engine stories and it pisses me off to think of someone dropping 50k on a truck that blows up with less than 50,000 miles on it
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 7
I say this on all the truck forums that I participate on, over and over again...
I believe that all technology should continue to be pushed and advanced, whether it's motor vehicles, combustion engines in general, electronics, or pretty much anything we use these days. I don't want to buy a new product and have it be exactly the same as it was 7 years ago, then what kind of new product is that? No, new does not necessarily mean better but how would you know unless you tried it in the real world?
What if emissions standards never came up, the business relationship with International was great, and Ford kept using the 7.3L today? So you'd buy a 2013 truck and it would have the same engine as your 1999 truck that you are trying to replace. Well what have we accomplished here?
I look at brand new F-450 chassis cabs that show up at work and I go 'Man, they still make that Modular V10?'
Apply the same concept to consumer electronics or your personal computer... yes my 386 works great, still does, I use it to program PIC microcontrollers.... but that doesn't mean I want to buy a new computer today and have it equipped with a 386 just because it's tried and true.
I believe that all technology should continue to be pushed and advanced, whether it's motor vehicles, combustion engines in general, electronics, or pretty much anything we use these days. I don't want to buy a new product and have it be exactly the same as it was 7 years ago, then what kind of new product is that? No, new does not necessarily mean better but how would you know unless you tried it in the real world?
What if emissions standards never came up, the business relationship with International was great, and Ford kept using the 7.3L today? So you'd buy a 2013 truck and it would have the same engine as your 1999 truck that you are trying to replace. Well what have we accomplished here?
I look at brand new F-450 chassis cabs that show up at work and I go 'Man, they still make that Modular V10?'
Apply the same concept to consumer electronics or your personal computer... yes my 386 works great, still does, I use it to program PIC microcontrollers.... but that doesn't mean I want to buy a new computer today and have it equipped with a 386 just because it's tried and true.
I still listen to tube amps.........through Altec 19's.
Older does not always mean obsolete, however technology that prices out the target user is self defeating.
I am a buyer for a new diesel, but it seems that owning it out of warranty is risky indeed. As a user of this product I have to make a choice that will be best for my situation. And it looks like I have to stick with a gasser.
But this is my situation, everyone is different.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
When I bought my 6.4 diesel, I didn't exactly know what to expect, but I knew it was a diesel, and diesel repairs can be costly.
Will I whine like a little girl if I have to throw thousands of dollars into it? I sure will.
Will it get fixed? Sure will. Likely in a matter of days.
If I didn't have the means to cover huge repair bills, I would have bought something more affordable.
Over the course of the trucks lifespan... will it be more cost effective than a v8 or v10? I honestly don't know. What I DO know, is I'm not running out to trade in on a gas truck.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
Likes: 2
From: Diamond Bar, CA
Well I finally got my truck back this morning. It runs like it's brand new now. Plus for some reason I've gained over 3 MPG with this new engine so far. I did notice that the oil drain plug is on the opposite side now and it's not plastic. Hopefully this motor holds up. I had them change the fuel filters, air filters and serpentine belt also while it was apart.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Well I finally got my truck back this morning. It runs like it's brand new now. Plus for some reason I've gained over 3 MPG with this new engine so far. I did notice that the oil drain plug is on the opposite side now and it's not plastic. Hopefully this motor holds up. I had them change the fuel filters, air filters and serpentine belt also while it was apart.
Bad news though, you probably didn't gain 3 MPG, unless you actually hand calculated it...