Help with Tranny slipping.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
Help with Tranny slipping.
Hello. I have an 02 F150 with 183,000 miles. It has the 5.4L V8 with the 4R70W tranny and 3.55 LS axle. I was driving home on the freeway and started up a slight grade. I gave it a little gas to maintain my speed and the revs went up and my speed dropped. Every time I gave it some gas the revs went up but I didn't speed up. I made it the last few miles home. It seemed normal from a stop. I didn't experiment a lot so I am not sure if it is normal with the OD turned off. I haven't taken it to a shop yet. I hope to figure out if it needs replacement without spending money diagnosing on what might be an already dead tranny. I might be able to swap it out myself and I don't want to add to the cost with unnecessary work. How can I figure if the tranny needs replacement or can be repaired? Suggestions? Thanks
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
That's not enough information to even guess which does not help you decide what to do..
A lot of action can happen depending on the cause.
The trans was in OD.
The RPM will go up if it downshifts out of OD and the converter unlocks and may or may not increase in road speed depending on throttle applied and the cause of the issue.
Was there any studder or missfire felt?
Does it do it if OD is locked out?
Does it only do it in OD between 45 and 60 mph with light throttle?
Did you ever see the OD lamp flash?
Are there any codes set pointing to the transmission.
Make those observations then come back with the results.
Good luck.
A lot of action can happen depending on the cause.
The trans was in OD.
The RPM will go up if it downshifts out of OD and the converter unlocks and may or may not increase in road speed depending on throttle applied and the cause of the issue.
Was there any studder or missfire felt?
Does it do it if OD is locked out?
Does it only do it in OD between 45 and 60 mph with light throttle?
Did you ever see the OD lamp flash?
Are there any codes set pointing to the transmission.
Make those observations then come back with the results.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
Ok I will do the testing. As I mentioned the tranny is slipping. This is not a downshift. I was unable to maintain my speed even though the revs were climbing well beyond normal. I am asking what to do to help determine if the tranny is fixable or needs replacing. If getting codes read is mandatory I will do that. The reason I didn't mention shudder, misfire or flashing lights was because there was none. I tried to describe it as it happened. I will take it out and check it with OD on and off etc. Thanks
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
I am testing it now. No light flashing. No problem with OD off. With OD on and driving between 65 and 70 it will gain 1500 rpm and maybe 1 mph. With OD off it will gain 10-15 mph and maybe 500 rpm. Works fine from a stop. The first couple minutes seemed normal until I pushed it beyond 75. Then it started slipping and still does. I noticed a wine or howl in park when it first acted up. When I started today I could not hear it. Now that it has slipped again the noise is back. Can I do anything more to test it myself? Do I need to have it checked for codes?
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
Likes: 143
Any slip and RPM increase is the converter lockup or the OD band.
Normally a code will be present for any electrical malfunction.
I am trying to lead you through enough testing to make a reasonable decision that you came here for help on..
The reason is I don't assume anything.
For example (if) you felt studder or missfire under certain conditions it would not be the transmission but an igntion problem. Would you have noticed the difference?
Good luck.
Normally a code will be present for any electrical malfunction.
I am trying to lead you through enough testing to make a reasonable decision that you came here for help on..
The reason is I don't assume anything.
For example (if) you felt studder or missfire under certain conditions it would not be the transmission but an igntion problem. Would you have noticed the difference?
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
I can add that I checked the fluid and it is up to the high side of the words "do not add". I have not added fluid, so unless they did it at the last oil change, it is reading high for another reason. I believe also that it smells burnt. Also when I say it acts normal from a stop, I mean normal for it. It has long seemed a little abnormal to me. It will sometimes have a pause and a hard shift into gear from a stop but it is nothing new.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
Well I went through the misfire tranny confusion before, so yes. As you may notice, my last sentence in the first post says "how can I figure if the tranny needs replacement or can be repaired" I was not asking for a guess of a conclusion from only the info in my first post. The info I included was to help someone tell me how and what to check for. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, I appreciate the help. Thanks
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
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I can add that I checked the fluid and it is up to the high side of the words "do not add". I have not added fluid, so unless they did it at the last oil change, it is reading high for another reason. I believe also that it smells burnt. Also when I say it acts normal from a stop, I mean normal for it.
sounds like classic dirty filter warnings. I have no clue if it will help your slipping problem, but at least drain it to the proper level.
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Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
I can't say it has been serviced on time every time, but it has been kept up better in more recent times. You're right about the throwing parts at it. I want to avoid that as much as I can. If I have to spend thousands, I can't afford to spend anything that isn't absolutely needed or at least highly likely to fix the problem or very low cost. I wondered if the high level was a result of the damage or excess heat causing the fluid to expand more than normal.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
I know someone that had one of these transmissions fail completely. They were told to replace the radiator and cooler because of debris clogging the fluid cooling system. Is that normal and if so is it normally done every time the tranny is rebuilt or replaced?
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 76
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From: Central MN
We cannot know for certain if your trans is shot. Bluegrass has given you pointers and troubleshooting suggestions.
You need to bring it to a shop for a proper diagnosis. They will take it for a test drive, drop the pan and inspect.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,907
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A note:
If metal is found in the pan and on the magnet is a large quanity, the cooler lines, radiator cooler and Aux cooler need to be 'reverse' flushed with a hot cleaning appplication to back the metal out, otherwise what's left can wreck a rebuild or a replacement transmission.
If rebuilding from such a condition the trans must be disassembled, and throughly cleaned, for the same reason.
Good luck.
If metal is found in the pan and on the magnet is a large quanity, the cooler lines, radiator cooler and Aux cooler need to be 'reverse' flushed with a hot cleaning appplication to back the metal out, otherwise what's left can wreck a rebuild or a replacement transmission.
If rebuilding from such a condition the trans must be disassembled, and throughly cleaned, for the same reason.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
I was finally able to drop the pan. I guess the filter was never changed even though the tranny was serviced once by the dealer and a few other times at some oil change places. I don't see any debris in the pan so I am going to replace the filter, refill and cross my fingers. I didn't know what to look for when I pulled the pan to check for a torque converter drain plug. Can anyone tell me if this model has one? If not what is the best way to do a good job getting more old fluid out?
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 114
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You have to drop the "dust shield" off of the bell housing (in front of tranny pan, to the rear of engine block) to get to the torque converter, try searching this forum for transmission flush procedures, or buy a service manual for your vehicle(Haynes or Chillton's, Haynes is better for most IMO), also your local library may have the manual. Based on the looks of the fluid in your pictures, IMO don't bring your truck to the people that "serviced" your trans before ever again.
Good Luck!!
Good Luck!!
Transmission Rebuilder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 63
From: North Georgia
With that debris in the pan and what you are describing its doing I would bet the overdrive band is burnt. Thats a lot on the magnet and the black soot in the bottom of the pan is from burning clutch or band material.
You will have to rebuild or replace this transmission.
You will have to rebuild or replace this transmission.