Hi!

2006 F-350 Lariat 6.0L CC SRW SB Fx4

Please let me know if the OEM frame-rail mounted fuel pump/filtration
system will support a regulated return system with 175/30%
sticks, Garrett Powermax and Magnaflow 3.5" down to 4" w/
86ed~kitty?

Much appreciated!

 

I have pretty much same set up, my sticks are Casserly 155s and it won't support mine. Under hard acceleration falls on its face.

 

With aggressive tuning, the stock pump can't even keep up with stock sticks.

 

BlownChevy & William,

Appreciate the heads-up. Will upgrade the fuel system as planned.
Lack of fuel pressure is an injector death sentence.

2006 F-350 Lariat 6.0L CC SRW SB Fx4

 

BlownChevy, William & All,

This Link May Be Of Interest: http://www.strictlydiesel.com/Produc...pSelection.pdf


OEM framerail fuel unit issues feeding larger sticks:

Some sources have stated that the OEM framerail system will adequately supply up to 190 sticks reliably when paired with a well designed RRFS having larger ID lines and banjoes plus 'custom machined regulator housing assembly'. Dead-end elimination reduces pump demand with reduced resistance.
I have an AD II -165 which I will not employ (reasons ~ see info below)!

A) Will a regulated return fuel system eliminate the OEM fuel pump supply issues feeding upgrade injectors?

A2) Was the OEM 155 injector feed weekness without a regulated fuel return installed?

A3) Can "falling on it's face" a few times due to weak OEM system supply damage the injectors?

A4) Was the aggressive tune weakness with OEM pump & sticks through dead-end or RRFS?

B) Which fuel pump/filtration/H2O separation system are you using with upgrade (175/30 and up) sticks and aggressive tuning?

C) Anyone: Please reply with proven brands/sources for brush or brushless pump/filtration/separation systems for the 6.0l with Powermax, 175/30's, Magnaflow ~ no cat, AFE intake, RRFS?

<1/4 level tank draw issues:
They also say that 1/4 and below tank fuel draw problems may come from larger or poorly installed pickup tube especially when devoid of a transfer pump. Some OEM plastic pickup screens may dislodge/break from sloshing or degradation (mostly on older units) which raises the draw a few inches from the original pickup level.

*Buyer Beware:
What I have read and heard leads me to believe that the AirDog II-165 and other PureFlow AD models have design inadequacies and are leaving many powerstrokers stranded roadside.
Engineering flaw consequences include overheating due to motor weakness and a thin wiring harness plus internal shorting after defective shaft seal failure. These pumps were originally designed as forwarding units until being stretched beyond their means as high demand systems.
Potential damage to injectors etc during pump failure at speed is a likely side-affect.

Thanks again.

 

Not sure you were asking question here, but my answers are above in red.

To go a step more on the issue of a RR. I don't think you really understand how it works. RR system doesn't add any fuel volume. It takes the plugs out of the back of the head, and runs a line from them into a regulater. Thus eliminating the OEM dead head system. The regulater has an adjustment to adjust how much return you are allowing back the tank. Thus rasing Fuel pressure by not allowing as much fuel to return back to the tank. When you think about this you can see that with or without a RR you can't increase the output of your stock pump, as far as what size injectors/tuning it can handle. With agressive tuning or bigger injectors your demanding much more volume than the OEM pump can supply. So in this since a RR with not help you at all. When the pump can't supply enough volume to feed the demand of the tuning/injectors the pressure will fall. The regulater in the RR can't add volume. It only restricks the amount of retun going back to the tank. So when volume is low and can't reach the PSI the regulater is set at then you just get a lower pressure with no return going back to the tank. As stated above anything under 45 PSI can damage the injectors. Hope that all makes since. I have a hard time explaing this stuff sometimes.

 

got anything I can read that supports that, imo i would think 155 may be passable.

 

Hey Cheezit. I know that with my stock pump and extreme race tune my fuel pressure was falling to ~20PSI. That's when I put in the FASS. Maybe my pump was just weak, but that's my experience. We have done a few 155's with RR at the shop and with the stock pump and SRL+ tuning it has a hard time holding 20+ PSI on hard excell.

 

interresting stuff there. guess I should toss a gauge on mine and see what it really does.
I know mark has one on his truck and ours are pretty close. Mark you got numbers?

 

W/ Matts SRL+ tune (and the blue spring mod) I am in the mid 50's for fuel pressure at WOT. The stock pump seems to be enough for me, but bear in mind that I do have stock injectors and a stock turbo.

Maybe there is a large degree of performance variability in the OEM pumps - maybe depends on year model????

As far as 155's go, I have seen that discussed before - just need to find it ................

 

thanks mark. thats what I was thinking as well. and are trucks are very close to the same so....

 

Mine is a 06 as well, but like I said there is the possibilty that my pump was just weak. I had 100K plus at the point that I installed the FASS

 

Thanks Cheezit, Scotty, Mark & All for the continuum! Forgive me for this litany? /^8]>

Scotty,
Most excellent of you to explain RRFS. Past diesel wrenching was on my JD-440A log skidder and B-Model Mack heating oil tanker to log truck conversion back in the '80's. I have tapped my gasser turbo bikes' FPRs for adjustability and understood their sealed high pressure return systems (Bosch DFI). Your 6.0l RRFS briefing was concise & helped me out. No firsthand 6.0l impressions as I'm at the mercy of a mechanic. My tools and shop are @ my cabin waaay north or I'd've dove in meself. Mom needs me, so I've bitten the bullet of another working on my machine. Nothing more painful! I'm so tired that I'm liable to key anything. I regularly lose my 1st 2 posts due to time-out even though I am signed in. It tells me I'm not signed in. Poof, all gone. I try to routinely copy while writing these novels. 8^) No publisher interest thus far. Got to laugh at myself.

If I install the OEM pump, do you fellas believe that it'll run well enough for a 6 mile drive home barring any worksmanship issues. It'll be under mild throttle without tunes on stock strategy parameters. I hope to get it back and finish with an adequate pump and Titan tank? He's had it for 8 months and the motor is awaiting RRFS system due Friday before going in the hole.

In response to BlownChevy's reply;
"I have pretty much same set up, my sticks are Casserly 155s and it won't support mine. Under hard acceleration falls on its face."
I should've typed; A2) Was the OEM pump weakness while feeding 155cc injectors with a regulated return installed?

Applied: 175/30% sticks, Driven's regulate return, powermax, BD boots/clamps, A-1 studs pinching oem, AFE stage II intake + dif cvrs, catless magnaflow, egr 86, fresh 5r110w + transgo-sk kit, Precission Industries TC, SG II, Bilstein remote reservoir + steer dampener, ELC EC-1, OEM ~ all upgrades. [Edge Insight & SCT-X3 to be installed].

I was intent on AD II upgrades to 75 relay + 8g wiring while adding a transfer pump but seal issues remain.The new AD II-165 is shelved unless I scale a wall of proven victim discontentment.
I slept well while convinced that the concept of oem pump employment for my setup was a safe solution. Reading that it would/may reliably sub-190's under aggressive tuning gave me wiggle room with 175's.
Jeopardizing new sticks is inconceivable, so rolling the dice is ...

Many obscure variables unique to each truck, builder and tuner can be responsible for success/failure regarding oem and aftermarket pump suitability and longevity. Filtration maintenance, ficm output, valvetrain, regulated return, regulator adjustment, real-time operation fuel psi readings, stick condition, etc 'may or not' be implicated.
A oem or aftermarket pump choice is innevitable yet difficult.

OEM pump employment requires live fuel pressure monitoring for damage prevention.
Does the 2006 6.0l electronic management system utilize a 'low fuel pressure fail-safe shutdown' to prevent injector damage?
If yes; What psi level is the setting?

I've read that pressures above 70 may damage injector o-rings.
What injector component succumbs to low fuel pressure?
Is low pressure pulsing or air the stick damaging ingredient @ low psi?
Is it true that the SG II cannot monitor fuel pressure?

* Please read page 2 ~ paragraph 4 through the 'Important Point" in linked PDF below?
http://www.strictlydiesel.com/Produc...pSelection.pdf
Opinions please?

Mark,
Thanks for the reply.
Do I recall reading that you have a FICM upgrade?
What voltage is ideal as I had read that the extremes can cause damage?
What influence may this have on overall performance over stock in consideration of my upgrades and injector durabilty, if any?
Who is best for the FICM upgrade?
What recommended voltage and cost?

All the best folks.

 

No the OEM pump was new at the time of the build. I did my head studs, had Bill @ mountain high performance do harden seats, his big valve kit, port exhaust bowls and o-ring the heads. I have 4" exhaust turbo back, power max turbo, AFE intake, bullet proof diesels oil cooler and all recent Ford updates. Casserly 155s, with Mats tunes as well. I have my regulator on the DDRR set at 55psi and I've tried it from 55 to 75psi. With new filters full tank of fuel and monitoring it with my CTS display sensor in the regulator and my cat digital pressure group in the filter housing. When accelerating hard the pressure drops into the 30s on both gauges. The regulator set @55psi drops the least. I put the RR return system on for cooling of the injectors and pressure monitoring after the injectors. Not to mention that any real Diesel with unit injectors runs one. If you are seeing pressure drops that low with out a RR at the filter housing I couldn't imagine the delta p for 7 & 8 injectors. I purchased a FASS titanium system, but before I have to install it I'm going to try running bigger fuel lines with the OEM pump. I believe it's capable but the supply and return lines restrict it. I will let you know the outcome after Memorial Day weekend, and thanks for all the great info every1!

 

I'm like Mark, and you and I have discussed this IIRC. Maybe there's just that much difference in OEM pumps and no way would an OEM pump keep up with 155's and aggressive tuning. It won't keep up with stock sticks and aggressive tuning.