That idea about those injectors that mist and then **** really reminds me of the of the Mercedes injectors I mentioned earlier. They have two springs in them. One of the springs will release a small pre-injection squirt of fuel and then the main injection comes slightly later. These were used for emissions purposes I believe but I think there might be a possibility of getting some performance out of them. They would just need to be modded slightly.

 

A mist will out perform a **** any day...atomization is what makes a complete burn.

Easy way to test you could even mock up something with your pop tester, Take one pisser and one mister make a line long enough so your away and use a torch brazing flame and fire each one at the flame from different distances,I bet the mist makes a big ball of fire! And the pisser will...Well ****.

The concept is just like taking a charcoal lighter fluid and spraying on hot coals, Hell make it a U tube video.

Windex bottle has a mist and stream setting but really not the best thing to shoot at a flame.

 

Ok, this is the sort of post I have been waiting for...

This is the half-thought behind injectors in an IDI engine. The problem with this reasoning, is the fact that we are NOT holding a direct flame to the "atomized" fuel coming out of the injector, we are not even holding anything beyond ~40% of the heat being generated by the compressed charge within the prechamber. Our IDI injectors are pointed at the Pre-chamber for a reason... An Atomized charge coming out of the injector isnt anywhere close to being as atomized as a burst of fuel hitting a hot prechamber at full pressure.... If you have a pop tester, you can verify this... Find an injector with a very atomized fine fan of fuel, hold a flat object about a CM away from the nozzle, and fire it.... Then do the same with something like a stock BB code injector.... The resultant atomization is much more with the narrow cone than it is with the mist cloud... and that is without heat. Now dont get me wrong, I am not saying that its a good thing to run "pissing" injectors, raw fuel is raw fuel, and will not be burned, however, this idea that anything beyond a narrow cone is going to cause an engine to run cleaner/better/smoother/more powerful is frankly ridiculous... In my opinion, after lots of real world testing, from streaming injectors, to flat mist clouds, the best injector I have run so far is a narrow cone profile, not only was it the cleanest, but I also got the best economy with it...The worst has been a high misting injector... The only gains in performance I have seen testing any of the injectors so far, has been with pop pressures matched to how much fuel is being run. Performance doesnt necessarily mean more power, but all around driving conditions....

 

Dont know but all the newer vehicles use ultra high fuel pressures and they create more power then any older vehicles carb/gas or IDI/diesel's (I know the turbo too but thats not in the discussion)so somethings going on,You need to make up a set of 2500lbs 3000lbs 3500lbs injectors and see what happens (if a pump can handle it) and some dyno money I know Id like another 100 or more horses under the rattling hood.

But you also need to do stages....

N/A Bigger pop pressures HP____
N/A More fuel HP____
Add turbo HP____
Add more boost HP____
Bigger cam HP____
ETC HP_____

Then you have a nice selling point for add ons...And proven.

Just like building any engine you have to have a base line....Not like what a K&N box says "Get 15HP filter change...."

 

Kobalt, youre forgetting the major crucial component here. ALL of those engines (the new ones) are DIRECT injected. They MUST have high pop pressure in order to adequately atomize the fuel in order for combustion. Common rail isnt to say better at power than mechanical or even huei (w/ever it is), it simply is better at moving more fuel, and being programmed to achieve those insane power levels. (pulse injection is money)

Wheras in an IDI the pre-cup does the atomizing, thats the whole point of the design. Low pressure fuel system is cheap, injectors are not critical as they are in DI engines. Ive never heard of an IDI failing emissions either.

Think of an IDI injector as a valve, it simply turns on and off the fuel. In a DI engine, it has to accomplish that, and also has to perfectly atomize the fuel, with the perfect pattern, in the perfect spot, at the pefect angle. THAT.. IMHO is why "you can buy a whole set of IDI injectors for the cost of one PSD,CTD,Dmax, etc.. injector"

Basically there is no "performance" injector for the IDI, because in short, theyre nothing more than a valve. As long as it opens /closes as it should - IE not leaking / dripping, thats about as good as it gets, because the pre-chamber takes care of the rest.

I think changes to behavior of the injector can yeild differences in overall performance, as mentioned above, however nothing is going to make a difference when compared to a set of "100hp" injectors on a DI engine.

 

Exactly right Mike. Only thing I would like to add is the biggest difference we can make on our side of the injector equation, is to adjust pop pressure. Because our lines flex and expand at such high pressures, we have a duration to which our fuel is injected (Any pump injected diesel does). The Duration of the injection event is determined by the Pop pressures and expansion of the lines. Higher pop pressures equal a shorter duration, and the same amount of fuel in a shorter duration equals a faster injection event... Faster injection events are always better for performance... Common rail is the best example.

 

I agree, and its something Ive really been working on... There is so much more about making an IDI injector work than just "misting".... Our injectors are effective in stock form, with stock fueling... We don't need to change that... Unfortunately, when you start adding more fuel, it starts changing on us, so we need to adjust parameters to keep the injection events relative to the amount of fuel we are pushing.

As far as the other stuff goes, I think everybody knows that for the most part, all of us in the IDI performance "business" would love to state such numbers... Unfortunately it takes a decent investment to make such things happen... However, as far as some of us are concerned, we are devoted to the platform, and not just making ourselves a forum name to feel good... Numbers are the proof in the pudding, and making these engines work is priority... I don't have to make a living off my parts, so making them work is my top priority.

 

I heard moose misters give you the most power.

 

Ive heard the same thing.

 

they are sooper misting injacktors

 

I also heard he is a masta toona

 

re.......spect.........walk.

 

That's too hardcore for this thread br0....

 

If I put One of them big R+D 140 pumps on my NA and took the mffler off It would sprinkle Diamonds on the HIway

 

HAHHAHHHA.... Thats good man... I wish it were true... cause id be RICH!