Performance IDI injectors
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Maple Valley, WA
Performance IDI injectors
So with all the talk on performance IDI injectors lately...
What really can make an IDI injector "performance"??
Just Curious.... Maybe some of you can shed some light on this issue??
What really can make an IDI injector "performance"??
Just Curious.... Maybe some of you can shed some light on this issue??
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From: Rocky Mountians
My friend keeps telling me about "marine" idi injectors that are suppose to be "the best". And also a custom injection pump that has 6 adjustments for fuel flow.
Sometimes I wonder if people just read different opinions over the web and formulate their own not knowing if its true or not
Sometimes I wonder if people just read different opinions over the web and formulate their own not knowing if its true or not
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
If there was a more accurate statement, id be amazed.....
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From: Rocky Mountians
Seems cut and dry...
But hey, I'm no idi master. I just have one that runs great. Everyone I talked to said they had a hard time breaking the 200rwhp mark. All I did was jack my pump up, turbo back exhaust, custom air intake (BHAF with double rubber tractor intake hose) and advancing the pump.
What I want to see is someone posting links or proof to these mystical yet majestic performance injectors.
Then again it could easily be a third party marketing technique. Because no ones really going to know the difference between a GOOD rebuilt set of injectors over "performance" injectors. Because chances are the injectors arnt running at 100% intended efficiency if your swapping them out. A quality rebuilt set would seem like a performance set coming from running warn out injectors...
That's just my opinion tho
But hey, I'm no idi master. I just have one that runs great. Everyone I talked to said they had a hard time breaking the 200rwhp mark. All I did was jack my pump up, turbo back exhaust, custom air intake (BHAF with double rubber tractor intake hose) and advancing the pump.
What I want to see is someone posting links or proof to these mystical yet majestic performance injectors.
Then again it could easily be a third party marketing technique. Because no ones really going to know the difference between a GOOD rebuilt set of injectors over "performance" injectors. Because chances are the injectors arnt running at 100% intended efficiency if your swapping them out. A quality rebuilt set would seem like a performance set coming from running warn out injectors...
That's just my opinion tho
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Maple Valley, WA
You are very right in most of what you have said...
I find it funny that the only "Performance" injectors on the market have yet to have been dyno tested...
But I did do this thread for tech reason.. im just curious what makes an IDI injector performance or not....
Can somebody explain to me what makes a Misting type injector better than a "pissing" type, or vice versa??
I find it funny that the only "Performance" injectors on the market have yet to have been dyno tested...
But I did do this thread for tech reason.. im just curious what makes an IDI injector performance or not....
Can somebody explain to me what makes a Misting type injector better than a "pissing" type, or vice versa??
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Rocky Mountians
I would look up the specs between stock 12v cummins injectors vs their lets say 90hp injectors.
Idi and 12v are both mechanical injectors.
A "performance" idi injector could just flow and atomize more fuel over a stock injector, and it could also have a different pop off pressure.
But I have never even seen much for specs on idi injectors. As far as CC's, CFM, between G code, BB code ect.
I would look into doing custom injectors for like the RD4 pump, high pop off PSI with holes drilled at different sizes, with have the holes effectively atomizing the fuel and the other half more "dripping".
I still think we should revisit the secondary injector idea I told you about a while back. Because I think I can explain why in theory it will work.
Idi and 12v are both mechanical injectors.
A "performance" idi injector could just flow and atomize more fuel over a stock injector, and it could also have a different pop off pressure.
But I have never even seen much for specs on idi injectors. As far as CC's, CFM, between G code, BB code ect.
I would look into doing custom injectors for like the RD4 pump, high pop off PSI with holes drilled at different sizes, with have the holes effectively atomizing the fuel and the other half more "dripping".
I still think we should revisit the secondary injector idea I told you about a while back. Because I think I can explain why in theory it will work.
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
I am hesistent to express my opinion on what our injectors will do, despite anything I might know about them... Thats the point of this thread....
However, there are suppliers out there who seem to have it all figured out... Im just wondering why they are so good...
However, there are suppliers out there who seem to have it all figured out... Im just wondering why they are so good...
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FordManMT can you explain what you mean by secondary injector? Are you meaning something like the Mercedes injectors or something like that if I am remembering correctly about how they are designed?
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From: Rocky Mountians
Well I don't have facts. But I do know a little bit about fluid dynamics...
Everyone who I have talked to said that "pissing" injectors create more power, but lower mileage.
The "high quality" injectors better atomize the fuel so you get a more effective fuel burn. But "less power" over the "pissing injectors"
And this is why I think that is:
Liquid is none compressible. And for a injector to effectively atomize fuel it has to pass through a smaller hole to increasing the pressure to create a fine mist. The better the fuel mixes with the air the more effective the fuel burn.
Now a pissing injector can move more fuel. Why IMO? Because even tho the pop off pressure for the needle is 2,200psi it's easier for more fuel to be moved because the holes in the injector tips are bigger.
Simply put the pissing injector can move more fuel because there's less restriction in the injector tip, even tho the pop off pressure is the same.
So "performance" injectors could just have larger injector tips...
I have no hard evidence to back this up but it's my theory
Everyone who I have talked to said that "pissing" injectors create more power, but lower mileage.
The "high quality" injectors better atomize the fuel so you get a more effective fuel burn. But "less power" over the "pissing injectors"
And this is why I think that is:
Liquid is none compressible. And for a injector to effectively atomize fuel it has to pass through a smaller hole to increasing the pressure to create a fine mist. The better the fuel mixes with the air the more effective the fuel burn.
Now a pissing injector can move more fuel. Why IMO? Because even tho the pop off pressure for the needle is 2,200psi it's easier for more fuel to be moved because the holes in the injector tips are bigger.
Simply put the pissing injector can move more fuel because there's less restriction in the injector tip, even tho the pop off pressure is the same.
So "performance" injectors could just have larger injector tips...
I have no hard evidence to back this up but it's my theory
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Maple Valley, WA
There is a few things that can make an injector perform differently in these things...
Nozzle/pintle shape
Pintle Travel
Pop-pressure
Each has an effect on one another...
Nozzle/pintle shape
Pintle Travel
Pop-pressure
Each has an effect on one another...
Elder User
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From my short amounts of reading it seems like "idi performance injectors" are a mythical creature.
If you have a good rebuilt injector and you replace some leaky garbage then its not so much a performance increase but a return to normal. Glass half empty/half full sorta thing.
If you have a set that are flowing better and have a better spray pattern and it shows performance improvement over good condition equivalent stock parts then I guess it would be a performance upgrade (if it does improve numbers whether it be eficiency or power)
If you have a good rebuilt injector and you replace some leaky garbage then its not so much a performance increase but a return to normal. Glass half empty/half full sorta thing.
If you have a set that are flowing better and have a better spray pattern and it shows performance improvement over good condition equivalent stock parts then I guess it would be a performance upgrade (if it does improve numbers whether it be eficiency or power)
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Nutter Fort,West Virginia
i still think that an injector that mists then pisses would be awesome (and possible)
"low flow" the pental would be farther down, so you could get it to mist with the right angles worked in there. but at high flow you could get it to stream and poor fuel in.
another neat trick would be to drill a small hole in the precup in a certain spot lined up with the injector so that once it reaches the pissing stage it would shoot into the cylinder.
not sure if that is even remotely possible though.
it seems like the di engines are going for the finest atomization that they can get, although they lack a precup.
more fuel in the cylinder is awesome, but whats it matter if it doesn't burn?
what if you were to enlarge the port in the precup and have a injector that mists better?
"low flow" the pental would be farther down, so you could get it to mist with the right angles worked in there. but at high flow you could get it to stream and poor fuel in.
another neat trick would be to drill a small hole in the precup in a certain spot lined up with the injector so that once it reaches the pissing stage it would shoot into the cylinder.
not sure if that is even remotely possible though.
it seems like the di engines are going for the finest atomization that they can get, although they lack a precup.
more fuel in the cylinder is awesome, but whats it matter if it doesn't burn?
what if you were to enlarge the port in the precup and have a injector that mists better?
