Feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail. I would be happy to go over our options and prices with you in a way that you will understand.

Yep. The F6 definitely has it's advantages. It is very convenient to get new tunes.

 

Actually, I was trying to say that maybe the base calibration isn't changed at all....just the look up values (or whatever they are called...).

I am just guessing how handheld programmers operate, but my thinking is this:
It takes more fuel to make more power, in the end it always comes down to how much fuel you can burn. So, for one calibration to make more power than the next, the engine has to successfully ignite and burn more fuel. From what I can tell, the stock calibration contains a variety of tables and/or maps and/or formulas etc which help determine how the vehicle will operate. Based on the sensor readings, the PCM commands the solenoids/regulators to perform work and that translates to making a certain amount of power. However, the sensors don't necessarily give a measurement of psi, rpm, temp etc....instead it gives the PCM a voltage reading. It's up to the PCM to determine what that voltage converts to in psi, rpm, temp etc. One possible method is to preload some look up tables so the PCM can figure out what the values are for each sensor.

If that is the case....then perhaps changing the maps or formulas isn't really necessary...perhaps simply changing the look up tables will have the desired effect. It may be a somewhat crude solution but it may be effective no matter which PCM code is involved. This may explain why the programmers that I have tried have different effects with different trucks.

Am I close or way out in left field?

 

I'll try to keep this short and sweet or else I'll end up writing a novel that may be pretty hard to follow and end up somewhere around Abu Dhabi as I am somewhat scatterbrained tonight.

What it boils down to is regardless of what tuning device is used be it a flash programmer or chip, whether it's "canned" or "custom", if the tuning is designed for a stock-ish truck, the basic tune mapping will be very similar between different year/model trucks. However, the tuning that is made for a 2001 49-state truck cannot be used in (or programmed to) an early 1999 or 2002/2003 truck. The base calibration must be compatible with whatever the truck has as its PCM. The calibrations are NOT interchangeable between the two vehicles so a flash programmer cannot put VHAE9J2 programming on a TNAA5S8 computer or vice-versa. A chip for one will function on the other....but there will be some pretty severe problems with functions/drivability.

For example, I think that everyone here knows what an XLE4 computer is. For those who don't, it's an early 1999 automatic 49-state emissions computer. It is designed to run AB-code injectors. Just to get a little spread in model years, I'll go to a VDH4 for the second example (the hex codes are listed in the previous paragraph). It's a 2002/2003 automatic 49-state emissions computer. It is designed to run AD-code injectors. Aside from the maximum fuel capacity, the AB and AD injectors function exactly the same (and for all intents and purposes are capable of nearly identical power numbers).

With this in mind, take for example a 60 horsepower calibration from any vendor out there. Because the injectors in both trucks function exactly the same and neither will be empty in the amount of time it takes to make an additional 60 rear wheel horsepower because the nozzle sizes are the same, the same basic mapping can be used for just about every aspect of how the engine is commanded to operate. It's not wrong; it's easy and it works. Save for a few address block size mismatches, it's a copy and paste deal. So what we have are two different base calibration hex codes with nearly the same changes made to each as far as engine tuning is concerned.

Flash programmers can either build a calibration based on the truck's existing base strategy or they can install a completely new compatible strategy that can take the place of the existing PCM strategy. As stated in the above examples, you'd be likely to find very similar mapping techniques between the two strategies listed above for a given brand of programming device. Again, it's not wrong, but why go to the lengths of writing different tuning for each and every PCM code out there if there will be little to no discernible difference between them when it's all said and done?


Are there valid reasons for changing inputs that alter scan data? Sure. However, sometimes things are changed for no apparent reason and sometimes there are changes made because of an error in the tune-writing process. A recent example stems from my use of a particular flash tuning device that had three "levels"...one of which had a few things changed that caused the check engine light to come on and go off every so often while neither of the other two had the changes made to cause the erroneous code setting problem. Sometimes things are changed to mask certain code issues and they can cause drivability issues. I once acquired a chip that had a problem of being slower-than-stock after the 3-4 upshift during light to moderate acceleration. It was caused by an altered input signal conversion that was likely meant to curb an overboost code. No big deal......

It all boils down to one picking the right company to do your tuning. If I had a stock truck, I'd be perfectly happy with Diablosport's "Tow" calibration - all day, every day. That comes after a long love affair with Superchips' early 1705 "Tow Performance" calibration. There are some who tout the number of changes they make to the base calibration to make it work while both of the above change very little save for the important stuff. Stock isn't as bad as people make it out to be sometimes....and sometimes less is more.

 

Thanks for the explanation.
So it sounds like a flash programmer re-writes more than the look up tables. I guess they must have a small library of packages stored inside the device and it chooses the package based on which PCM hex code is detected?

What is your definition of a "stock-ish" truck? PHP defines my truck as "heavily modified" because of the transmissions that I have....do you share the same definition? Other then the transmission, my drivetrain is about as stock as they come...stock intake, exhaust, injectors, turbo, HPOP etc. When I was running my Bully Dog Power Pup programmer, I could take or leave it. It worked, but there were some drivability issues...they were minor but still bugged me. Now that I have a PHP chip, I would never go back to a programmer....the two products perform very different. Maybe the programming is very similar to each other on paper but for me their similarities end there. In fact, if faced with the choice again, I would probably stick with the stock calibration vs buying the Bully Dog programmer.

 

Yeah, a flash programmer does more than what people give it credit to doing. It does the same thing as an aftermarket chip...just without the hardware attachment to the PCM.

"Stock-ish" for me means anything from a showroom-stock vehicle to one that has any number of bling parts on it that don't do anything at all for the truck from a tuning standpoint. For example, anything having to do with oil or fuel system "cross-over" setups, compressor wheel or compressor housing changes, turbine housing changes, intake setups, exhaust systems, clutches (for manual trucks), or anything else that doesn't do something to increase performance or change the way transmission shifting is handled (for an automatic) does not warrant any tuning changes from those used in a stock truck.

Transmission modifications that require pressure changes from "the norm" or injector changes are a given for non-stock trucks. Aftermarket oil systems are in that "gray area" because certain setups don't require any modification to run fine while the more radical ones like the dual setups require a lot of finesse to run properly. These few things are the only real modifications that warrant custom tuning because without the PCM being programmed to work correctly when using these items, severe drivability problems will arise. I guess to put it another way, anything added to the truck that requires me to go in and change mapping from what I would use on a stock truck would fall under the "custom" tuning charge.

I hope this doesn't make me look like too much of an ****.....

 

Not at all.
So, if my transmissions were stock....then I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between my Bully Dog programmer and a PHP PHX with standard calibrations?

 

Oh there would be a HUGE difference. PHP's tuning is nothing like BullyDog's tuning (and I have seen enough of both to know).

The only thing that is different between your current calibrations set up for the modified transmission and the standard calibrations offered would be for the transmission shift feel. Transmission builders (and those aftermarket parts that move fluid through larger orifices) can't do anything with shift timing which is controlled through the tuning. However, to get a decent shift feel with additional power going into the transmission, either fluid pressure has to be increased during the shift or the fluid has to move through the transmission orifices quicker through larger openings. In the tuning world, the pressure is increased. When dealing with orifices and passages of a given size, higher pressure will move more fluid in a given amount of time (like an injector). Aftermarket builders and transmission modifications that increase orifice size in separator plates, etc. use the increased orifice size to provide higher flow rates with a lower pressure. Increasing the pressure during a shift while increasing the flow rate through mechanical means often causes a harsh, abrupt shift. It's not uncommon to have to use lower than stock pressures in certain areas of the tuning to maintain a decent shift feel when dealing with aftermarket parts - especially in the low speed/low load ranges.

 

Makes sense. When I was using the Bully Dog with a modified transmission....I was happier than if the trans was stock but still lusted after the 5R110 in our fleet trucks. After switching to a PHP chip, it was like a whole new truck. Now my modified 4R100 leaves me wanting for nothing...not even a TorqueShift. With the PHP chip, it feels like the truck has 5 forward gears and the ratios are nearly perfect. The Bully Dog never did that....it was just a regular ole 4R100 with firm shifts.

 

I screwed up the PCM connector mate to the chip a few times before I got it right. If that's intimidating, I'd lean toward cleatus12r's recommendations.

 

The most important thing to remember is the weaknesses of your old super duty. Those years had weak transmissions (automatic). I wouldn't recommend adding any program that would have more than an 80hp increase, otherwise all you are going to do is start finding the weak spots in your old truck. In my 99, I use an EDGE EZ, which I think was replaced by the EDGE CS or CST. It is a really simple after PCM tuner. Takes about 10 minutes. It added 65hp and can pull my 24ft hauler up any grade or pass here in California with ease. What is most important is that you monitor your trans temps and exhaust temps. A 4 inch turbo back exhaust is also strongly recommended. Keep it simple. Sometimes, when I really step on the throttle, I get an excessive fuel pressure readout on my OBS. Soft code and it clears almost instantly. The idea is the programmer amplifies the signal from the PCM to the injector control module and there you have it, more fuel more power. Basically the PCM doesn't know it exist. SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE

 

With respect to Duckdive, I didn't want the readers to get confused on tuning. First, I didn't realize the OBS 7.3L had a fuel pressure sensor (High Pressure Oil on a Superduty can throw a code, there is no fuel pressure sensor). The PCM does not control the injectors... it gives instruction to the Injector Driver Module and the IDM is not changed by tuning. The very basic fueling instruction from a PCM or tuner is "Open fuel to injectors for x.a milliseconds each, and start it at y degrees before Top Dead Center". The IDM then replies with a "Got it covered" and carries out the instructions. Of course, I could have erred here and the IDM needs to be told when to open the injectors and when to close them, but there is no "only open them halfway". The other side of the tune output (after a gajillion factors are weighed) is "In this situation, set the High Pressure Oil to z PSI". High oil pressure is akin to pumping up a beer keg with air... that's what delivers the juice, not the fuel pressure. Those two outputs are the fueling part alone, but it's not simple how the tune SAFELY arrives at that level of fueling and timing.

 

Unfortunately, you just added a whole other device type that IS NOT a programmer. Furthermore, if the PCM knew that the device existed on your truck, it would know not to trust the ONE FOOLED INPUT that is causing more fuel to be injected.

Your comment added more complication and confusion to everything this discussion was about.....ACTUAL programming.....which your EZ does NOT do.

In addition, the 95-97 trucks do not have a fuel pressure sensor. They have a fuel filter restriction sensor (which is useless anyway and leaks all the time). You still get the same P1211 code that the 99-03 guys get when injection pressure is not able to be maintained.

 

I would like to thank duckdive for drawing fire. The responses to his statement have added some helpful information to this thread. I have no knowledge to add to the discussion, but am very interested in seeing it continue.

(Thanks, for the picture Tugly, I've actually never seen a tuner before.)