ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
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From: DIXIE
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
I have a 3.0 FFV that has pinged since the day I bought it (used). I got the pinging down to an acceptable level with a tune up and DPFE change.
I went to CVS and bought a quart of ETHYL rubbing alcohol, not isoprophyl but ETHYL. and added it to the tank. It quit pinging after about 20 miles. I still have it in the tank and haven't filled up since but will probably continue to run it for a few more tanks.
I am getting my emissions done next week and will post the results.
I went to CVS and bought a quart of ETHYL rubbing alcohol, not isoprophyl but ETHYL. and added it to the tank. It quit pinging after about 20 miles. I still have it in the tank and haven't filled up since but will probably continue to run it for a few more tanks.
I am getting my emissions done next week and will post the results.
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From: DIXIE
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
Well, I found this MSDS for Ethyl Alcohol and see that a synonym for Ethyl Alcohol is Ethanol. Ethanol is what the FFV vehicles were designed to run at an 85% ratio. I feel that by adding a quart to 1/2 tank of gas gave it enough of a octane kick to overcome the pinging.
In Canada, they have gasoline blends at 10% Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol): 90% gasoline. The following quote is from: http://www.greenfuels.org/
And from this site http://www.kanoriachem.com/kcil/acw_...yl_alcohol.htm
I got the following:
Field of Application
For solvent, in Lab and industry manufacture of denatured alcohol, in pharmaceuticals, in perfumery, in organic synthesis, octane booster in gasoline
Ethyl has been added in several forms to gas for many years. It used to be a choice at pumps in the 30's and 40's. That Ethyl ws Ethyl Alcohol Lead though. Still, the Alcohol was what cured the pinging in early automobile engines. I have a few links that I feel explain it better in pieces.
I may see what I can get larger quantities for.
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethyl_alcohol.html
In Canada, they have gasoline blends at 10% Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol): 90% gasoline. The following quote is from: http://www.greenfuels.org/
• Ethanol is made of 35% oxygen therefore when it is blended with gasoline it encourages a more complete combustion.
• Use of a 10% ethanol blend results in a 25-30% reduction in carbon monoxide emissions by promoting a more complete combustion of the fuel.
• Use of a 10% ethanol blend results in a 25-30% reduction in carbon monoxide emissions by promoting a more complete combustion of the fuel.
I got the following:
Field of Application
For solvent, in Lab and industry manufacture of denatured alcohol, in pharmaceuticals, in perfumery, in organic synthesis, octane booster in gasoline
Ethyl has been added in several forms to gas for many years. It used to be a choice at pumps in the 30's and 40's. That Ethyl ws Ethyl Alcohol Lead though. Still, the Alcohol was what cured the pinging in early automobile engines. I have a few links that I feel explain it better in pieces.
I may see what I can get larger quantities for.
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethyl_alcohol.html
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ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
Hey JBabbler !
I have heard that some ethanol blends can damage soft engine parts like seals, gaskets etc., although I haven't experienced any problems myself the very few times I have used such a product.
Many motorists in our region (Lower Mainland, British Columbia, Canada) will fill up with an ethanol product before taking their vehicle through our mandatory air care testing program, and report a higher pass rate.
While such statistics are not gathered or maintained scientifically, I believe results are vehicle/driver specific. If the test results indicate a fail, and a subsequent re-test passes due only to a fuel type change to an ethanol blend - then eureka - a whole lot of money has been saved !
On the other hand, it may fail again. I don't think there is any substitute for a well tuned engine combined with a sensible driver when it comes to economical, efficient performance of a vehicle.
For the chronic gas guzzling, hydro-carbon spewing, nitrogen fouling polluter, keep searching for any kind of remedy.....
Good luck,
JT
I have heard that some ethanol blends can damage soft engine parts like seals, gaskets etc., although I haven't experienced any problems myself the very few times I have used such a product.
Many motorists in our region (Lower Mainland, British Columbia, Canada) will fill up with an ethanol product before taking their vehicle through our mandatory air care testing program, and report a higher pass rate.
While such statistics are not gathered or maintained scientifically, I believe results are vehicle/driver specific. If the test results indicate a fail, and a subsequent re-test passes due only to a fuel type change to an ethanol blend - then eureka - a whole lot of money has been saved !
On the other hand, it may fail again. I don't think there is any substitute for a well tuned engine combined with a sensible driver when it comes to economical, efficient performance of a vehicle.
For the chronic gas guzzling, hydro-carbon spewing, nitrogen fouling polluter, keep searching for any kind of remedy.....
Good luck,
JT
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Connecticut
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
That's good stuff you posted JB. I took a few minutes to go through your links. A cleaner and more complete combustion sounds like a win-win situation. On the other hand, I recall reading somewhere that you won't get as good gas mileage with the ethanol mix (I don't know that as fact, I just read it). Maybe you can try and keep your eye on that to see if it happens in your case.
Also, I was wondering if you can feel any difference in performance with the better combustion going on?
Thanks for the offer to post your emissions results. Hope it's good news the first time through!
Also, I was wondering if you can feel any difference in performance with the better combustion going on?
Thanks for the offer to post your emissions results. Hope it's good news the first time through!
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From: DIXIE
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
Well, filled her up with 87 today and dumped 2qts of ethyl (ethanol) into the tank. It is not pinging and runs like its on 93 cotane.
It definately has a lot more pickup and the throttle response is actually getting better. Not that it was ever slow, but it is much better now.
I am a conservative driver and only rev up to pass while on I285. The truck feels much smoother at idle and runs much stronger with the AC on.
I got 178 miles out of that half tank with the single bottle of ethyl. This is about on par with where it was.
I don't think I'll see a decrease like I would if I were running E85. There is a big difference between E85 with 85% ethyl alcohol and my measly 2 quarts.
I also found out that I don't need emissionsuntil July since I was able to transfer my old tag.
It definately has a lot more pickup and the throttle response is actually getting better. Not that it was ever slow, but it is much better now.
I am a conservative driver and only rev up to pass while on I285. The truck feels much smoother at idle and runs much stronger with the AC on.
I got 178 miles out of that half tank with the single bottle of ethyl. This is about on par with where it was.
I don't think I'll see a decrease like I would if I were running E85. There is a big difference between E85 with 85% ethyl alcohol and my measly 2 quarts.
I also found out that I don't need emissionsuntil July since I was able to transfer my old tag.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oak Harbor, OH
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
I would think that if the alcohol helps the gas burn more efficiantly (by burning more of it) you would get better milage because the engine would need less to make the power.
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From: Durham, NC
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
It actually takes more E85 to make the same power as pure
gasoline. So, the MPG will drastically drop when using E85.
This is why the 3.0L FFV has 24 lb. fuel injectors.
gasoline. So, the MPG will drastically drop when using E85.
This is why the 3.0L FFV has 24 lb. fuel injectors.
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ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
Therefor a higher octane will develop more power from the same volume of fuel as a lower octane.
Does it follow that an engine would consume less higher octane fuel to maintain a given power output than the lower octane fuel ?
If this is true, then the higher octane fuel might be more economical than the lower octane fuel, depending upon the price differential assuming all other factors were equal.
Or is the amount of fuel consumed more directly related to the displacement of the engine and its RPMs, and a base amount of fuel is going to be consumed or wasted regardless of octane rating ?
My 10 miles per gallon needs improvement.
Does it follow that an engine would consume less higher octane fuel to maintain a given power output than the lower octane fuel ?
If this is true, then the higher octane fuel might be more economical than the lower octane fuel, depending upon the price differential assuming all other factors were equal.
Or is the amount of fuel consumed more directly related to the displacement of the engine and its RPMs, and a base amount of fuel is going to be consumed or wasted regardless of octane rating ?
My 10 miles per gallon needs improvement.
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From: DIXIE
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
I understand that E85 being 85% alcohol burns higher volumes, but what about E10 (that's effectively what I'm making). It runs so smooth and quiet on this mix. I drove to the lake house for the weekend, pulled my boat in and out of the lake (it's about 2800 lbs) and it never pinged or studdered once.
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ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
In our area (lower mainland, BC Canada), price varies with percentage of ethanol to gas. Currently, an Imperial Gallon of regular gas (87 octane) costs 66.9 cents per litre, which is $3.05 per imperial gallon (4.454 liters per Imperial gallon) or $2.53 per US gallon (3.785 liters per US gallon). All funds are expressed in Canadian Dollars.
The ethanol blends are either 5% (91 octane) or 10% (94 octane) and sell at a 10 cent to 15 cent premium over regular. Right now an Imperial Gallon of 5% ethanol is selling for 75.9 cents per liter, and 10% at 81.9 cents per liter.
To add to the confusion and outrage, gas prices fluctuate almost daily now. What is 66.9 cents today, was 75.9 yesterday, 69.8 the day before and so on.
It seems a 10 to 15 cent price range exists for competition purposes, and isn't influenced as much by current events, except the more heated ones like Iraq, which saw regular go as high as the low 90s per gallon of regular.
Talk about profit taking and market manipulation. Why we bend over and take it up the hoop like this I'll never know.
Hope this helps !
JT
The ethanol blends are either 5% (91 octane) or 10% (94 octane) and sell at a 10 cent to 15 cent premium over regular. Right now an Imperial Gallon of 5% ethanol is selling for 75.9 cents per liter, and 10% at 81.9 cents per liter.
To add to the confusion and outrage, gas prices fluctuate almost daily now. What is 66.9 cents today, was 75.9 yesterday, 69.8 the day before and so on.
It seems a 10 to 15 cent price range exists for competition purposes, and isn't influenced as much by current events, except the more heated ones like Iraq, which saw regular go as high as the low 90s per gallon of regular.
Talk about profit taking and market manipulation. Why we bend over and take it up the hoop like this I'll never know.
Hope this helps !
JT
Post Fiend
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From: Connecticut
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
Here is a very informative and easy-to-understand PDF article on Ethanol and E85 prepared under the auspices of the Department of Energy:
E85 Facts & Guide Book
Interesting note, on page 9 of the article there is a chart comparing the various properties of Regular Unleaded Gas (87 Octane) and E85. The chart indicates that MPG using E85 is only 72% of what it would be using the Regular Gas. On the other hand, the same chart does confirm that using E85 will increase "power" by 3-5%.
E85 Facts & Guide Book
Interesting note, on page 9 of the article there is a chart comparing the various properties of Regular Unleaded Gas (87 Octane) and E85. The chart indicates that MPG using E85 is only 72% of what it would be using the Regular Gas. On the other hand, the same chart does confirm that using E85 will increase "power" by 3-5%.
Post Fiend
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From: South Jersey
ALL, yes ALL Pinging gone using Ethanol
The E-85 dose not have the same amount of energy as gas so thats why you lose mileage but on the other hand it has a higher octane rating so with the proper programing you can get more timing advance into the engine.