351 Clever
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
From: Northern, Va
351 Clever
Has anyone gone to a 351w using 351c heads ?? I have a 351w .030 bored engine that has been sitting for 12 years that has less then 10,000. miles on it pulled it from a car that i rebuilt the engine . And ended up with the engine & C-4 trans . Was thinking that a set of 351 2v heads would work & know mostly what has to be done . I need to use 351c pistons. And might put a top loader behind it engine . Any input is very helpfull ..
Thanks' Don Cross
Thanks' Don Cross
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,013
Likes: 205
From: SoCal
I hope you know that in addition to changing the locations of some coolant passages, you will need a special intake manifold for this swap. I think Edelbrok may still have one. The US 2V Cleveland heads have very large combustion chambers that will require pistons with some pop-up to bring CR to reasonable levels. Most opt for the Aussie 2V heads.
I think the only reason you want to do something like this today is for the antiquity of it (or you want eye-candy: Ford Motorsports Valve Train Stabilizer - Clevelands Forever! ). There are many aftermarket heads available for the 351W that work better than the old Cleveland heads, and will use more standard 351W intake manifolds.
I think the only reason you want to do something like this today is for the antiquity of it (or you want eye-candy: Ford Motorsports Valve Train Stabilizer - Clevelands Forever! ). There are many aftermarket heads available for the 351W that work better than the old Cleveland heads, and will use more standard 351W intake manifolds.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
If you just got to be different and you have some actual cleveland(not modified) heads kicking around then sure have at it, but if not then you can get more performance for less $$ using standard windsor parts now.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
You don't have to go to quench heads to get the comp ratio "up to reasonable levels", the 70-71 2 bbl Clevelands had a 9 to 1 ratio with the open chamber heads. Using the right flat top piston in a Windosr block would be no different. As mentioned, Edelbrock was making the correct intakes to do this. I know a couple of dirt track guys who have been building these motors for several years now. As for the modified heads, the only difference there is the presence of a Thermactor passage. And actually the 80's Modified heads had a better valvetrain (single groove valves and iron rocker fulcrums) than the 2 bbl Cleveland heads.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
It was actually an insependant company making a "street boss" and "track boss" intake to put Cleveland heads on a 302 or 351.
Now edelbrock lists an intake (about 4 years ago) to put a Cleveland head on a Windsor block.
It's not really worth specifically buying a set of C heads and getting them redone to build this motor. A good set of aluminum heads for a W can easily make the hp you want for less money, and without needing to modify the water port of the head.
I have a 2v track boss intake, and haven't been able to justify using it for the past 10 years. It's neat to look at and just sits in my collection.
I say do what you like, but research to see if edelbrock still makes the intake.
Now edelbrock lists an intake (about 4 years ago) to put a Cleveland head on a Windsor block.
It's not really worth specifically buying a set of C heads and getting them redone to build this motor. A good set of aluminum heads for a W can easily make the hp you want for less money, and without needing to modify the water port of the head.
I have a 2v track boss intake, and haven't been able to justify using it for the past 10 years. It's neat to look at and just sits in my collection.
I say do what you like, but research to see if edelbrock still makes the intake.
Postmaster
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,703
Likes: 3
From: La Vergne, TN
no point except to be "different" now days..
aftermarket heads are cheaper in the long run and much better..
it's hard very HARD, to find a good set of Cleveland heads, plus have them machined for lead free gas and also be rebuilt..
aftermarket heads are cheaper in the long run and much better..
it's hard very HARD, to find a good set of Cleveland heads, plus have them machined for lead free gas and also be rebuilt..
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Hard to find Cleveland heads ? You're not looking. They're easier to get now than they were 10-15 years ago. Lots of guy have em, but few are actually using what they have.
Trending Topics
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
The heads to use are Australian 302 Cleveland heads. They are 2v port size and small combustion chamber.
Most "Cleveland" heads people try to sell are crappy 351/400 M heads. Those are junk.
351C heads need exhaust seats if you're going to run lots of miles a year or boost. But for a rarely used car, no big deal. Most of the heads by now need machine work anyway so adding hardened seats isn't a tough job.
Ill build a 427 stroker someday with C heads and my track boss intake, but until I get a wad of cash to be different, the intake will stay screwed to my wall on display.
Most "Cleveland" heads people try to sell are crappy 351/400 M heads. Those are junk.
351C heads need exhaust seats if you're going to run lots of miles a year or boost. But for a rarely used car, no big deal. Most of the heads by now need machine work anyway so adding hardened seats isn't a tough job.
Ill build a 427 stroker someday with C heads and my track boss intake, but until I get a wad of cash to be different, the intake will stay screwed to my wall on display.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
From: Somerset County, PA
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
Likes: 3
From: Charleston
I just finished building my 302 roller clevor using some 2v heads. I used 289 rods (.060" longer than the 302's) and 351c pistons (.040" taller pin height than the 302's). With the extra height of the pistons and rods and no decking of the block, the pistons came out of the nearly .085". I did a little milling of the piston tops to match the 2Vs combustion chamber shape and ended up with a homemade dome piston. My compression ratio is 9.7 to 1 with this combo. I don't know if there is a longer rod option for the 351w but if you can figure out a way to pop the piston out of the hole a little, you can get the compression up and make the engine run a lot better.
Or go with the small chamber Aussie heads and some flat top pistons.
Either way, I think Clevor's are cool!
Andy
Or go with the small chamber Aussie heads and some flat top pistons.
Either way, I think Clevor's are cool!
Andy
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
You could buy boss 302 pistons and use 302 rods... It's shaped to make the combustion chamber work nicely and pop up above the deck like your combo. Good thinking with he 289rod/351c piston though.
If I were to do one, I'd do the cheap 393 stroker, use 351w rod and your 351c piston, and then not need to worry about the huge chamber of the head.
Or find a set of small chamber 302c Aussie heads.
You're making me want to build one now. I have a roller 351 block begging for something to do.
If I were to do one, I'd do the cheap 393 stroker, use 351w rod and your 351c piston, and then not need to worry about the huge chamber of the head.
Or find a set of small chamber 302c Aussie heads.
You're making me want to build one now. I have a roller 351 block begging for something to do.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
No, it won't. Boss 302's used the same length rod as the 289's did. Using a 302 rod puts it down the hole by .060 vs the 289 rod. He could have used the 302 rods and Cleveland pistons and the piston would have been only about .010 out of the hole at TDC
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 104
Likes: 3
From: Charleston
No, it won't. Boss 302's used the same length rod as the 289's did. Using a 302 rod puts it down the hole by .060 vs the 289 rod.
Another option, if you do some serious digging, is to use some no longer in production "Clevor" pistons. About a year ago, I was helping move some equipment from an old out of business auto parts store when I found these...
I about crapped myself when I found these!!!
The 302 clevor part # is H557P
The 351 clevor part # is H613P
I'm sure there are more of these sitting on some old dirty shelf in some old warehouse.
Andy
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
I remember back a long time ago (before the 393 stroker kit) using a 400m crank with the counter weights cut off, balanced and I think we ground the rod journals some, used Chrysler 6 rods, and custom pistons, with 4v Cleveland heads...
Back before the stroker kits were really getting into the market, we would make our own.
Those oldschool pistons you found are awesome.
Back before the stroker kits were really getting into the market, we would make our own.
Those oldschool pistons you found are awesome.