429 Starter and flywheel question
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Senior User
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From: Santa Maria, CA
429 Starter and flywheel question
I have a 429tj in my 72 f250 with a 435 4 speed. What starter should I be using one for an auto or one for a manual. Also how do I determine what tooth count my flywheel is. Also it has an aluminum bell housing which seems to be late model. Are all externally balanced 429 and 460 flywheels the same ? I have had alot of trouble with starters lately and hope to find some answers so I can properly order a nice powermaster or similar.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
To the best of my knowledge there were never any externally balanced 429's.
If the bell and flywheel is stock to the 429 it would be 176 tooth
If you have a 460 flywheel, that's where your problem is.
It is 24.2 Oz. out of balance and has 180 teeth.
If not, who's clutch & flywheel are you using?
You need a starter for a manual transmission 385.
The flywheel is thicker than a flexplate and an automatic starter will not disengage because the snout is too long.
If the bell and flywheel is stock to the 429 it would be 176 tooth
If you have a 460 flywheel, that's where your problem is.
It is 24.2 Oz. out of balance and has 180 teeth.
If not, who's clutch & flywheel are you using?
You need a starter for a manual transmission 385.
The flywheel is thicker than a flexplate and an automatic starter will not disengage because the snout is too long.
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From: Santa Maria, CA
Shoot I ment to say internally balanced. I have had the truck a little over a year and have been through probably 4 starters. It has some sort of double disk set up but wise from that I have no idea what dimater. The starter that worked for the longest was a mini starter for a 96 ford 460 with a manual. So when that went I got the same which now does not mesh right and grinds. Also if its out of balance would it be pretty obvious because its been ran pretty hard for as long as I have owned it and is very smooth.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
You did not say how long you had owned it or if this was something new.
As my Sig says, I have a PMGR starter for a '94 & up Lima too.
I went through 5 or 6 starters when I swapped flywheels to use the 12" disc/pressure plate to fit my ZF5.
Some wouldn't fully engage, others were blowing the snout right off.
I really don't think anyone has the answer if you don't even know what is in there to begin with.
If you have a 176 tooth flywheel (15.520" diameter)and are using a late model starter for a 180 tooth (15.512") flywheel, that may be the cause of your issues.
I know that I ended up slotting the lower hole and reduced the piloting diameter on one side to get deeper starter mesh -in my case-.
As my Sig says, I have a PMGR starter for a '94 & up Lima too.
I went through 5 or 6 starters when I swapped flywheels to use the 12" disc/pressure plate to fit my ZF5.
Some wouldn't fully engage, others were blowing the snout right off.
I really don't think anyone has the answer if you don't even know what is in there to begin with.
If you have a 176 tooth flywheel (15.520" diameter)and are using a late model starter for a 180 tooth (15.512") flywheel, that may be the cause of your issues.
I know that I ended up slotting the lower hole and reduced the piloting diameter on one side to get deeper starter mesh -in my case-.
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From: Santa Maria, CA
I was hoping there was a fix all easy answer. I guess I need to pull the tranny and really find out what flywheel I have in there. It should have been a sign when I got the truck it needed a starter lol.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
Here's a link to my thread.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...er-issues.html
The first few posts were pulled from and edited out of the WDYDTYTT thread in the '80-'86 forum.
I have been fine with the DB Electric starter since THAT episode.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...er-issues.html
The first few posts were pulled from and edited out of the WDYDTYTT thread in the '80-'86 forum.
I have been fine with the DB Electric starter since THAT episode.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
The 184 tooth sounds like a 390 FE flywheel (zero balance)
I'm not sure what the diameter and depth of that is when on a 460 block.
But have seen it suggested you need to use a 351m/400 starter.
Major Flywheel/Starter issues - 460 Ford Forum
flywheel teeth? - 460 Ford Forum
I'm not sure what the diameter and depth of that is when on a 460 block.
But have seen it suggested you need to use a 351m/400 starter.
Major Flywheel/Starter issues - 460 Ford Forum
flywheel teeth? - 460 Ford Forum
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: Santa Maria, CA
400 starter works perfectly, how interesting. I still cannot understand how the starter from the 96 460 worked for almost a year perfectly. Who knows at least my trucks back on the road again.
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I think I talked to quick. After a few starts after diving the tuck around all day it's again having issues. What ended up happening is the starter gear is to far away from the flywheel and the teeth are end to end on the starter and the flywheel. So I am guessing the bell housing is meant for a larger diameter flywheel. I can't see the casting numbers while its in the truck but its an aluminum unit so I am assuming its a late model bell housing. I have a 79 I believe steel bell housing laying around that is a d9 stamped on it maybe that will be better suited to the possible smaller flywheel.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 39
From: EXTREME southwest CT
If you look in my thread, Matt (Archion) linked some files that have all the various starters, the depth, gear size and number of teeth.
He works for a major mid-atlantic wholesaler and has access to information most of us do not.
Maybe you could find one that has a larger diameter gear than you have now.
Or just shift it over like I did...
He works for a major mid-atlantic wholesaler and has access to information most of us do not.
Maybe you could find one that has a larger diameter gear than you have now.
Or just shift it over like I did...
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Santa Maria, CA
If you look in my thread, Matt (Archion) linked some files that have all the various starters, the depth, gear size and number of teeth.
He works for a major mid-atlantic wholesaler and has access to information most of us do not.
Maybe you could find one that has a larger diameter gear than you have now.
Or just shift it over like I did...
He works for a major mid-atlantic wholesaler and has access to information most of us do not.
Maybe you could find one that has a larger diameter gear than you have now.
Or just shift it over like I did...