I can't get this larger throttle body thing out of my head. Easy to install, better throttle response, more power, sounds great. Is there much to gain if installed on a stock engine (ie. no headers, no chip)? Does the TB hurt mileage if you can keep your foot out of it? Has anyone dyno'd one?

Matt

 

Matt

I have seen a few dyno but not one JUST with the TB.

My gut is that if you want/need to get more POWER, (forget MPG), then a combination of opening the intake and exhaust with components that compliment each other is necessary.

Certainly an air filter that flows more than a stock unit has a effect, same with a muffler..

But when you want to create the greatest amount of Air the engine can SUCK in, and then all the flow dynamics of each restrictive component come into play.

Lets say as an example, that at 3000 rpm the engine NEEDS to get 1000 cfm of air. For illustration we will say that the Unrestricted plumbing of the Filter housing, MAF housing, TB housing, and Upper Plenum can flow 1200 CFM.

Now to get the 1000cfm the engine needs at 3000 rpm we need to size the Filter, MAF, and TB to not create any combined restriction greater than 1000cfm.

Actually engine builders have much more complicated flow dynamics to compensate for, and some of the components are deliberately sized to create venturi effects, because volume is only part of the equation, rate or speed of the air column is a factor.


All this is a long way around to say that TOO large a TB can be an expensive way to LOOSE power

 

I have yet to read of someone loosing power by adding the larger throttle body (65 mm). I was just thinking that maybe I wouldn't get much benefit from the larger TB without opening up the exhaust (more than the FM40). This looks like a great mod because it does not require premium fuel and is quick to install. If I had $350 just laying around... would this be the one to do?

Matt

 

Matt,

I guess over the years I have posted many times with a deliberate slant away form simple "bolt on" more power goodies.

I grew up "building" engines with the tools and parts necessary to make an engine "blueprinted" or "stroked" or "radical" whatever. Usually this required some sort of overall plan to get all the components working towards the most power possible in a power band that is drivable.

I will never say that ALL bolt on stuff is snake oil...BUT I do seriously believe that there is NO single $250+ part that by itself will do anything amazing for the V10 engine.

If you have a grand plan to ultimately spend about $2000, then yes the TB is part of the search for power. So is a open/cold air intake system, along with headers and full flow exhaust.

 

Jeez ya crotchety old fart... How about the Tornado Fuel Saver then... should I order one of those?

Matt

 

Putting the throttle body on makes a differance it's recomended that you grind out where the TB mounts to.So it matches the TB to get the full affect

 

You mean that the face it bolts to has a smaller opening than the new throttle body? Grind? I'm not liking the sounds of this.

 

Matt

Come on now I aren't all that crotchety... jest really trying to give you the whole picture...

The TBs are not junk, but they are an expensive item. And I tried pretty hard to show you how one COULD be part of a well thought out modification plan. I kind of suggested that BY IT SELF was probably not going to gain you much. That's all


If you will send me $19.95 I will draw a tornado in a post card and send it to you for $5.74 S&H.

With this post card on your center console exactly centered and facing forwards, canted at 33 degrees up, I guarantee you will go faster, have extremely better throttle response, and realize a savings in fuel economy that will pay for the tarnoda in 155 years

 

I tend to agree on the no single $250 part....and if it part of some plan, but if there is no plan that incorporates a larger TB w/ headers, exhaust,...then I might not. If u are thinking about a one-time power upgrade to the V10 I might go the Diablo Delta route. I ordered a custom w/ the lighted switch this week and I can't wait!

 

Here's my take on it. I have followed this site for a long time and the only thing that is getting the current V10 to the next level is a supercharger. I have the Banks P-Pack, minus the Otto-mind, and it has woke it up some. I have tried the Airraid spacer and absolutely no change. Since the V10 has come out guys are still trying to eke out some more Hp, me included, and there is no miracle pill other than supercharging it. The V10 has been out for about five years or so, and guys are still hashing this topic out , one would think that by now there would be a good combo for bolt on performance by now... In my opinion, till Ford does some internal work, we will be still chasing the bigger displacement motors. Keep the faith. JPS

 

When I ground the opening to the intake I stuffed a big car wash sponge in there to hold the filings and vacumed it out before removing the sponge.
Tested my truck last night at Cecil Co.Raceway.With borla headers,65mm bbk throttle body(ebay $227),full gas tank,80degrees bad air.Knocked 3/10 off stock time with near empty tank and 50 degree dry air run.With some traction(better tires) I should be in the upper 15s

 

When i installed my 65mm tb, the intake opening looked bigger than the tb. in fact i thought it was huge compared to the tb itself.
Also it was a worthwhile addition. I first installed my micro-tuner, then drove to my friends shop and installed the tb-BBk#1711.Then installed my dual exhaust, each mod yielded more power.

 

I agree with Fredvon4, I thing you need to take the package approach. Opening up the intake and not the exhaust will yield very little gains. I have driven V10KLLZ71S truck and it is quick. His approach with the throttle body, microtuner and dual exhaust worked.

The thing that concerns me with Superchargers, or Nitrous injection, is the transmission. When you start turning out this type power the old stock 4R100 just won't handle it.

Mark

 

Gav10

Interesting observation and I totally agree.

Most of you know I harp about the 4R100s quirkieness a lot!

In the quest for POWER you MUST remember the tranny!

There are several things you must do to the STOCK engine and trans to keep out of warrenty, or "you pay", repairs.

The very minimum is an aux cooler and REAL guage. And Never exceed 230F, even with synthetic fluid.

There are several companies that make a good profit "bullet proofing" the 4R100.

If you read the diesel site from two years ago about all the PSD on steroid owners who did the trans command, ottomind, or sonex valve mods, and remember the posters identity.

THEN read all the posts from this year, there are a significant number of "them" that ended up breaking the 4R100 and then getting a new trans.

They are all happy with the "bullet proof" new trans and are pretty volcal about who does the best rebuild. Sort of like the lift arguments here on the SD forum.

I realize that this may be apples to oganges, just a observation. A PSD on STEROIDS makes MUCH MUCH more power than we will ever make with "bolt on mods" to the V10

What I am trying to really say is that there is a practical limit to the torque that the STOCK 4R100 will take, beyond that, you should consider the probability that you will eventually smoke your tranny and plan for the ultimate upgrade.

Check out Brians Truck shop as one example of "bullet proof" 4R100 methods. Brianstruckshop.com

 

Jeez FredVon4, have you ever posted less than 250 words?

I found a BBK 1711 on ebay for $200. We'll see if it makes much difference on the stock engine. If not, later down the road when I get headers, it should help.

Matt