Great Until Sandy
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Great Until Sandy
Hi Folks,
I have an E350 cube van that was pretty functional until Sandy gave it an uninvited bath in sea water up to the tops of the headlights. Believe it or not I've managed to get it running pretty well after three baths of "Salt-Away with a pressure washer, draining all fluids, replacing the alternator and then patiently coaxing it back to life. What's left to deal with are electrical issues. What doesn't work are the running lights, four way flasher, brake lights, and the auxiliary power outlet (cigarette lighter #2) on the dash, and the dash panel lights. All of this stuff worked before the dunking. I have connected a battery through one of the tail light connectors and I am able to backfeed the running lights. To me that means the grounds and positive connections are okay at the lights. I have replaced the main light switch so it wouldn't be a wild card. I guess what I need most is the wiring color code so I can start tracing things back to the light switch. Of course I've checked all of the fuses in the main panel and under the dash. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
I have an E350 cube van that was pretty functional until Sandy gave it an uninvited bath in sea water up to the tops of the headlights. Believe it or not I've managed to get it running pretty well after three baths of "Salt-Away with a pressure washer, draining all fluids, replacing the alternator and then patiently coaxing it back to life. What's left to deal with are electrical issues. What doesn't work are the running lights, four way flasher, brake lights, and the auxiliary power outlet (cigarette lighter #2) on the dash, and the dash panel lights. All of this stuff worked before the dunking. I have connected a battery through one of the tail light connectors and I am able to backfeed the running lights. To me that means the grounds and positive connections are okay at the lights. I have replaced the main light switch so it wouldn't be a wild card. I guess what I need most is the wiring color code so I can start tracing things back to the light switch. Of course I've checked all of the fuses in the main panel and under the dash. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
5th Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
did water get in the cab as well? if so did your fuse panel in the cab get submegered in salt water? the relays for the brake lights and flashers(which are on the fuse panel) may be of gone bad from the salt water. i would give them a look at.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37
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yes the fuse panel under the dash. check the fuses under the dash. i have a 1999 e350 and below is the fuse locations for mine. see if you have a blown fuse.
i thought there was relays under the dash in the fuse panel like my mustang has them. but check the fuses under the dash.
7 10A Multi-Function Switch, Turn Signals
30 15A Headlamps (High Beam Indicator), DRL10A
* Either fuse 21 or circuit breaker 43 will be present for power
i thought there was relays under the dash in the fuse panel like my mustang has them. but check the fuses under the dash.
Fuse/Relay
Location
Fuse Amp
Rating
Description
1 20A RABS/4WABS Module
2 15A Brake Warning Diode/Resistor, Instrument
Cluster, Warning Chime, 4WABS Relay,
Warning Indicators
3 15A Main Light Switch, RKE Module, Radio
4 15A Power Locks w/RKE, Illuminated Entry,
Warning Chime, Modified Vehicle, Power
Mirrors, Main Light Switch, Courtesy Lamps
5 20A RKE Module, Power Lock Switches,
Memory Lock, Power Locks with RKE
6 10A Shift Interlock, Speed Control, DRL Module
Location
Fuse Amp
Rating
Description
1 20A RABS/4WABS Module
2 15A Brake Warning Diode/Resistor, Instrument
Cluster, Warning Chime, 4WABS Relay,
Warning Indicators
3 15A Main Light Switch, RKE Module, Radio
4 15A Power Locks w/RKE, Illuminated Entry,
Warning Chime, Modified Vehicle, Power
Mirrors, Main Light Switch, Courtesy Lamps
5 20A RKE Module, Power Lock Switches,
Memory Lock, Power Locks with RKE
6 10A Shift Interlock, Speed Control, DRL Module
7 10A Multi-Function Switch, Turn Signals
8 30A Radio Capacitor(s), Ignition Coil, PCM
Diode, PCM Power Relay, Fuel Heater,
Glow Plug Relay (Diesel Only)
9 30A Wiper Control Module, Windshield Wiper
Motor
10 20A Main Light Switch, (External Lamps)
Multi-Function Switch (Flash-to-pass)
11 15A Brake Pressure Switch, Multi-Function
Switch (Hazards), RABS, Brake Pedal
Position Switch
12 15A Transmission Range (TR) Sensor, Auxiliary
Battery Relay
13 15A Blend Door Actuator, Function Selector
Switch
14 5A Instrument Cluster (Air Bag and Charge
Indicator)
15 5A Trailer Battery Charge Relay
16 30A Power Seats
17 — Not Used
18 — Not Used
19 10A Air Bag Diagnostic Monitor
20 5A Overdrive Cancel Switch
21 30A Power Windows*
22 15A Memory Power Radio
23 20A Cigar Lighter, Data Link Connector (DLC)
24 5A Illuminated Entry Module
25 10A Left Headlamp (Low Beam)
26 — Not Used
27 5A Radio
28 25A Power Plug
29 — Not Used
Diode, PCM Power Relay, Fuel Heater,
Glow Plug Relay (Diesel Only)
9 30A Wiper Control Module, Windshield Wiper
Motor
10 20A Main Light Switch, (External Lamps)
Multi-Function Switch (Flash-to-pass)
11 15A Brake Pressure Switch, Multi-Function
Switch (Hazards), RABS, Brake Pedal
Position Switch
12 15A Transmission Range (TR) Sensor, Auxiliary
Battery Relay
13 15A Blend Door Actuator, Function Selector
Switch
14 5A Instrument Cluster (Air Bag and Charge
Indicator)
15 5A Trailer Battery Charge Relay
16 30A Power Seats
17 — Not Used
18 — Not Used
19 10A Air Bag Diagnostic Monitor
20 5A Overdrive Cancel Switch
21 30A Power Windows*
22 15A Memory Power Radio
23 20A Cigar Lighter, Data Link Connector (DLC)
24 5A Illuminated Entry Module
25 10A Left Headlamp (Low Beam)
26 — Not Used
27 5A Radio
28 25A Power Plug
29 — Not Used
30 15A Headlamps (High Beam Indicator), DRL10A
31 10A Right Headlamp (Low Beam), DRL
32 — Not Used
33 — Not Used
34 10A Transmission Range (TR) Sensor
35 — Not Used
36 5A (Cluster, A/C, Illumination, Radio), Steering
Column Assembly
37 — Not Used
38 10A Air Bag Diagnostic Monitor
39 — Not Used
40 30A Modified Vehicle
41 30A Modified Vehicle
42 — Not Used
43 20A C.B. Power Windows*
44 — Not Used
32 — Not Used
33 — Not Used
34 10A Transmission Range (TR) Sensor
35 — Not Used
36 5A (Cluster, A/C, Illumination, Radio), Steering
Column Assembly
37 — Not Used
38 10A Air Bag Diagnostic Monitor
39 — Not Used
40 30A Modified Vehicle
41 30A Modified Vehicle
42 — Not Used
43 20A C.B. Power Windows*
44 — Not Used
* Either fuse 21 or circuit breaker 43 will be present for power
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Fuse Locations
Thanks !!!
This is much better then what I have been working with. Although I've checked the fuses already, I'll do it again as I may have missed something. There is also the possibility that a connection to the fuse block has been damaged by corrosion. It's interesting that wires that weren't hot show little corrosion while the charged ones really took a hit at the submerged mechanical connection, I'm assuming due to a galvanic reaction.
Do you have a chart of the relays that are located in the main fuse block under the hood? No flooding there but it would be good to know what they are.
Thanks again for your help. It's much appreciated.
This is much better then what I have been working with. Although I've checked the fuses already, I'll do it again as I may have missed something. There is also the possibility that a connection to the fuse block has been damaged by corrosion. It's interesting that wires that weren't hot show little corrosion while the charged ones really took a hit at the submerged mechanical connection, I'm assuming due to a galvanic reaction.
Do you have a chart of the relays that are located in the main fuse block under the hood? No flooding there but it would be good to know what they are.
Thanks again for your help. It's much appreciated.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Hi Franklin2,
It's a '97 E350 12' cube van. Is there an electrical connector that Ford used on their cab & chassis models that allowed a quick connect to whatever was to be mounted on the frame later? Any thoughts on where to start on figuring out why my dash lights are out?
Thanks !!
It's a '97 E350 12' cube van. Is there an electrical connector that Ford used on their cab & chassis models that allowed a quick connect to whatever was to be mounted on the frame later? Any thoughts on where to start on figuring out why my dash lights are out?
Thanks !!
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
Hi Franklin2,
It's a '97 E350 12' cube van. Is there an electrical connector that Ford used on their cab & chassis models that allowed a quick connect to whatever was to be mounted on the frame later? Any thoughts on where to start on figuring out why my dash lights are out?
Thanks !!
It's a '97 E350 12' cube van. Is there an electrical connector that Ford used on their cab & chassis models that allowed a quick connect to whatever was to be mounted on the frame later? Any thoughts on where to start on figuring out why my dash lights are out?
Thanks !!
if your cube van is what i call a box truck, there are 3-4 connectors tucked up on the frame rail behind the rear, and another one a little farther back. they are wire connectors that are wrapped in electric tape and then wire loom. if those were submerged in the saltwater, water could of gotten to those connectors as well.
fuse panel under hood of truck.
Fuse/Relay
Location
Fuse Amp
Rating
Description
Location
Fuse Amp
Rating
Description
1 — Not Used
2 — Not Used
3 — Not Used
4 10A PCM Keep Alive Memory, Instrument
Cluster
5 10A Right Trailer Turn Signal
6 10A Left Trailer Turn Signal
7 — Not Used
8 60A I/P Fuses 5, 11, 23, 38, 4, 10, 16, 22, 28
9 30A PCM Power Relay, Engine Compartment
Fuse 4
10 60A Auxiliary Battery Relay, Engine
Compartment Fuses 14, 22
11 30A IDM Relay
12 60A Engine Compartment Fuses 26, 27
13 50A Blower Motor Relay (Blower Motor)2 — Not Used
3 — Not Used
4 10A PCM Keep Alive Memory, Instrument
Cluster
5 10A Right Trailer Turn Signal
6 10A Left Trailer Turn Signal
7 — Not Used
8 60A I/P Fuses 5, 11, 23, 38, 4, 10, 16, 22, 28
9 30A PCM Power Relay, Engine Compartment
Fuse 4
10 60A Auxiliary Battery Relay, Engine
Compartment Fuses 14, 22
11 30A IDM Relay
12 60A Engine Compartment Fuses 26, 27
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Joe Kucinski
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From: Virginia
On the trucks, the dash lights are powered by the running light fuse. The running light fuse sends power to the headlight switch on the tan/white wire. Inside the switch they take this power and split it out, in one direction it goes through the switch and out on the brown wire that feeds all the running lights. In the other direction it goes to the front of the switch to the rehostat where you dim the dash lights, and then leaves the switch and goes back to the fuse box to a instrument lamp fuse. It then leaves this fuse and goes out on the blue/red and feeds all the dash lights.
That's why the dash lights are out, your problem is up near the headlight switch or the fuse for the running lights. I will go to autozone's site and double check to see if the van's are wired up like the trucks.
That's why the dash lights are out, your problem is up near the headlight switch or the fuse for the running lights. I will go to autozone's site and double check to see if the van's are wired up like the trucks.
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Likes: 2,725
From: Virginia
Ignore that previous post. Here's a diagram for a 97 e350 superduty.
AutoZone.com Repair Guide Image
If yours is like the above diagram, there is no running light fuse, there is a fusible link, and it feeds a exterior lamp relay. The power comes from the headlight switch and triggers the relay. If you find your van is wired like this, the first thing I would do is find the relay, and see if you have power on the white/black feeding the relay from the headlight switch. If you do not, then your problem still may be up at the headlight switch or the black/yellow that feeds it.
Also if you look at the above diagram, you will see the relay feeds a bunch of fuses. It looks like one of them feeds a blue/red which goes to "A". I bet that's your instrument lighting.
AutoZone.com Repair Guide Image
If yours is like the above diagram, there is no running light fuse, there is a fusible link, and it feeds a exterior lamp relay. The power comes from the headlight switch and triggers the relay. If you find your van is wired like this, the first thing I would do is find the relay, and see if you have power on the white/black feeding the relay from the headlight switch. If you do not, then your problem still may be up at the headlight switch or the black/yellow that feeds it.
Also if you look at the above diagram, you will see the relay feeds a bunch of fuses. It looks like one of them feeds a blue/red which goes to "A". I bet that's your instrument lighting.
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Just back from working on it and this is where I am. It looks like the water level was about an inch below the interior fuse panel so there is no damage there. I found a ground splice along the frame that looked pretty bad so I re-spliced with no change. From there, armed with the diagram you sent me the link to, and a couple of others from the Autozone site, I went to the switch with a tester. Apparently from your description Franklin, there is a lot more going on in the switch than I thought but here's what I came up with. With the tester on the connector of the big brown wire, it flickered on when I moved the switch through the park position. If I finessed the switch at that spot, the running lights, including tail lights, and the instrument cluster lights came on, and the dash light dimmer worked. If I jump the headlight terminal to the brown wire, all of the lights come on when I move the switch to the headlight position. Are there relays that I am bypassing or is it safe to assume that I got a defective new switch? You're correct FlyingHi, it's a box truck.
Thanks to both of you guys.
Thanks to both of you guys.
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From: Virginia
The headlight switch has several sections to it. The headlights are one section and fed by a different power supply. The running lights are another section fed by their own power supply.
From what you are describing, it sounds more like my truck wiring description than the wiring diagram I found at autozone. If it's like the truck wiring, look for a tan/white wire going to the switch. This is the power supply for the running lights. Jump the power over to the tan/white, and see if they work. If they do, then the tan/white is your problem, it should be hot all the time. It comes directly from the fuse box and the running lights fuse. On the trucks, it is common for this wire to get hot and fail.
The lights are working when you fiddle with the switch, because you are crossing the contacts up inside the switch. You are putting it in a position it should not be in, and the running lights are getting power from the headlight circuit.
Keep an eye on this, we still don't know what wiring diagram you should have,, but if you find a tan/white, I am confident it's wired like I described.
From what you are describing, it sounds more like my truck wiring description than the wiring diagram I found at autozone. If it's like the truck wiring, look for a tan/white wire going to the switch. This is the power supply for the running lights. Jump the power over to the tan/white, and see if they work. If they do, then the tan/white is your problem, it should be hot all the time. It comes directly from the fuse box and the running lights fuse. On the trucks, it is common for this wire to get hot and fail.
The lights are working when you fiddle with the switch, because you are crossing the contacts up inside the switch. You are putting it in a position it should not be in, and the running lights are getting power from the headlight circuit.
Keep an eye on this, we still don't know what wiring diagram you should have,, but if you find a tan/white, I am confident it's wired like I described.
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