If you replace your injectors with a different flow? If you replace your tranny with an after market? Replace your turbo with say a GTP 38R? Is tuning needed or can you run without? What would warrant having to have a tuner other than just better performance?

 

Technically you can run those things you listed without proper tuning, you will just not be using them to their optimum potential. or very well. Tuning simply put is to optimize what you have to suit what you want.

 

Absolutely yes

Depends on the build, but often times no.

No

Injectors with different flow characteristics, nozzles, and/or build type (such as switching from splits to singles) absolutely should have tuning to match the injector type. Otherwise you have a truck that will not run properly, idle properly, and depending on the injector.... could even cause engine damage if it's not fueling correctly for any given RPM and ICP. Then of course timing comes into play, as different injector builds will change the SOC (start of combustion) which can alter cylinder pressures, sometimes dramatically.

Most transmissions will be just fine without tuning changes. In some instances, modifying the shift pressures with a different valve body or valve body modifications can make shifting somewhat harsh or erratic. In those cases, tuning adjustments would be recommended.

As for dropping in a 38r, there really aren't any tuning changes necessary. It's going to spool with whatever fuel it's given. So any tuning added would only help to increase performance. However, a 38r would run perfectly fine on a bone stock truck with bone stock tuning, and the only difference the driver would notice is the sound from the turbo, and possibly some lower EGT's.

 

Let's expand on this post a bit, because I've got several questions/observations I've been accumulating regarding tuning.

1. I've seen comments to the effect of "don't bother with a Bully Dog (or similar), get a real tuner instead". Why? Differences?

2. I've seen recent comments to the effect of "don't bother with a tuner at all, regardless of make, you're just going to blow up stuff". Why?

3. The only reason I would add a tuner to my truck is for some additional "umph" pulling my very heavy fiver (12.4k empty). In looking at DP Tuner (as an example), only a 40HP tow tune is recommended for my particular application. That's pretty much the smallest tune in the whole selection. Why?

Discuss (civil, if possible, not trying to start any kind of flame wars).

 

In most cases it comes down to personal preferences. Some big brand tuners can add additional fueling, ICP, and make some timing tweaks for additional power, but at times lack other refinements such as transmission shift points, pressures, etc. This is where some of the custom tuners come into play, where often their tuning is designed based on the individual's needs and driving style, rather than a "shotgun" approach.

In addition, these big brand tuners are typically geared for stock trucks, or trucks with very few mods (such as intake, exhaust, and/or maybe a mild turbo upgrade). However, they are not designed for injector swaps. Again, this is where custom tuners have the advantage, as many of them do tune according to injector size, and make the necessary adjustments to make the truck drivable with larger sticks.

It's the whole "pay to play" mentality.... which there is some truth behind it. In a nutshell, you're taking an engine and pushing the power output to a level that the engine was not tested or designed for by the OEM engineers. Thus the additional stress that could be added to engine components could cause catastrophic failure. Then of course there are concerns regarding the drivetrain, particularly the transmission, trying to hold more power than what it was designed to handle.

My own truck is a prime example of that. I'm hitting horsepower levels that until recently were never thought to be accomplished while still keeping powder metal rods intact. Is my engine safe from harm? Absolutely not. However, it's still holding together, and it runs like a bat out of hell. Hopefully it will continue for a long time to come, but there are no guarantees, and many of these exact same motors have windowed blocks at much lower power levels than mine.

Because in their case they are looking at overall safety. Can you tow that weight in a higher HP tune? Sure you can. However, there are greater risks involved, and as a company they would prefer to ensure that they can satisfy the needs of the greatest number of customers, while providing them with information and recommendations that would mitigate risks. For example, not every customer that purchases a chip from any specific company is fully aware of the dangers of high EGT's to their engines. So not every customer would know exactly when to back down before engine damage would occur. If they have recommendations for what weights can be towed safely with which power levels, then customers have an easier time following those instructions, regardless of their knowledge (or lack) of diesel tuning.

 

When do I need tuning? Well I drove out of a parking lot with a trailer today and thought something was wrong. I started checking boost levels, EGTs, tail pipe for smoke, RPMs, everything!

Then realized I was in my stock tune. Turn of a **** and back to normal
So I need tunes all the time.

 

I actually have something to contribute on this question... woohoo!

For the first year of ownership, I had people trying to talk me into chipping the truck. I was worried about the aspect of "If you turn this up, you'll break that." so I opted out of tuning. When nearing the first anniversary of owning the truck, my transmission died. I did some homework here and with the little time I had, I went with the HD4R100 as a replacement (Ford dealership).

The Ford mechanic was urging me chip the truck! Whuuhh!?! Doesn't that void the warranty? He explained it like this: So much has been learned since the program was written for my transmission back in 2000, the tuners frequently do a better job of transmission treament than the stock programming. I had to ask "Do you sell chips?" They do.

The skeptic in me was thinking "Great, sell me a tranny, sell me a chip, then deny my warranty because I installed a chip." After a little more homework, I learned they sell a benign chip in the parts department and they have actually honored warranty claims... as long as the truck has just a simple upgrade - nothing like stageII sticks.

I had a stock configuration with the new transmission, and several tunes. The tunes are better on the transmission with the stock sticks - I can attest to that. The stock transmission programming is... I dunno... "squishy". As in not authoritive. It also drags me down when I let off the throttle - not very fuel efficient if you can't coast at least a little. In my collection of tunes, I have the decel tune. Boy howdy... I like that one when going down a grade. This has kept my foot of the brake more times than can be recalled - but I can remember a couple of good ones: From Tahoe to Carson City... no need to brake. From the summit of Stevens Pass in Washington to the base of the mountain - no need to brake.

OK... so I had to brake here.

 

What do you acheive with the manual trans? I have been tossing around the tuning thing since I got the truck but with the shifts being done by my right hand it doesn't get any firmer than that. What would a tune do for the engine?

 

You can get more oomph to clear a grade while keeping the EGTs down and the economy up. These engines were tuned to be "Safe" with any driver under any condition and keep the emissions clean. Translation: Depowered. Get a gauge set and a tuner, then you have free reign to let out as much beast as you choose... instead of leaving it up to some engineer in detroit.

 

Good to know, I wasn't sure what it could give me when all the shift point changes are taken off the table from a tuning perspective. Do the tow tunes make more low end power? Seems like my truck doesn't make much uumph until 2000 or so. Once up to speed I can fly up the hills but getting there is somewhat of a challenge unless I really hammer her rpm wise. I have gauges, EGT and boost. Have to move the EGT probe to the manifold or install another. The PO put it post turbo but at least he put one in.

 

I'm no pro, I do have lOonEy tuNes up to 140hp, but once you get tunes you'll think you bought another truck entirely.

For myself now that I'm thinking more along the lines of fuel economy, I've been driving out of tunes more often than not, just to keep me from hot rodding.

 

Excellent info, especially Pocket's detailed explanations (reps given). Most everything I've seen here is in line with what I understood, just wanted to make sure I wasn't off on a rabbit trail.

Since I'm on the list to have BTS rebuild my tranny in early December, I think I'll stay stock otherwise for now and see how she handles various terrains and such. I might still go with a DP tuner with 40HP tow and decel tunes, if nothing else.

 

Try to find a TS chip before you go and let Brian give you some tunes to try when you are there.

 

You are trying Vivian's tunes now? How do you like them? Didn't you have Gearhead, then before that some DI? Or am I thinking of someone else.

If I'm write, what do you like/dislike of each?

 

Try Craigslist. I found my Bullydog 6 TS at maybe three months old with all original paperwork and original Bullydog box selling for $250.00, programmed for a 2002 F250. Since my truck is an '01 and I'd need to have the thing re-programmed the guy sold it to me for $150.00. Reprogramming by Gearhead cost me $175.00 so I got away for a total of $325.00.

Just a heads up, good deals on Craigslist.