ICVR Thoughts & Observations
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Norman, Ar
I don't think it is going to need any forced air flow, but just put in a place where its heat can generate a bit of flow via convection, such as using a tie-wrap to hold it against another wiring run. Or, use a tie-wrap to hold it against something thermally large like the steering column bracket. Either way, being a switching supply it doesn't generate the amount of heat a linear device, like the LM317, does so it should be very happy with the load of our gauges.
But, we will find out as I just ordered a DE-SWADJ. Yes, I ordered the little bit of stuff I needed to finalize my LM317 regulator last night, so should be receiving both shipments this week. (By the way, shipment for the DE-SWADJ was $1.25) I think I'm going with the DE-SWADJ as it will be so easy, but have the other as a backup.
Thanks again!
But, we will find out as I just ordered a DE-SWADJ. Yes, I ordered the little bit of stuff I needed to finalize my LM317 regulator last night, so should be receiving both shipments this week. (By the way, shipment for the DE-SWADJ was $1.25) I think I'm going with the DE-SWADJ as it will be so easy, but have the other as a backup.
Thanks again!
Solder the wires and mount that baby ANYWHERE you want under the dash....I don't think anyone would have to worry about overheating..
Just my opinion...
BTW,,, I am OFFICIALLY saving daylight... .......Trav..
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
What I want to know is where everyone is saving their daylight. You would think that all the rooms would be full by now and we wouldn't have to do it anymore. Oh wait - we just quit saving daylight so maybe they did get full?
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
From: Norman, Ar
We have to save daylight part of the year because not all states observe it...there are a couple or so ...AZ is one....
The rest of the states have to make up the extra savings...
I don't think you'll have to worry about where they are saving it....It was with ENRON..................
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Success!
Got the DE-SWADJ regulator yesterday and installed it today. Easy, peasy. Took a picture or two along the way and put them in a new album entitled How To Build an ICVR Replacement.
Added some words to each picture, hoping that 'most anyone can follow it. But, some times my instructions aren't as explanatory as I think, so please let me know what you think.
And, here are a few of the pic's:
If you look closely you can see the regulator pointing at you in the lower left of the picture, just right of the wiper switch. It is held to the steering column bracket with a modified clamp for thin-wall conduit. Then in the middle left you can see the wires coming through the speedo cutout in the dash.
We are taking the truck back to KS tomorrow to work on cleaning out Dad's house, so will know for sure that it works well. But, it does sitting in the driveway, so I know it'll be perfect. And, I can just touch the regulator up under the dash so I can tell if it is getting warm, although I'm certain it won't.
Added some words to each picture, hoping that 'most anyone can follow it. But, some times my instructions aren't as explanatory as I think, so please let me know what you think.
And, here are a few of the pic's:
If you look closely you can see the regulator pointing at you in the lower left of the picture, just right of the wiper switch. It is held to the steering column bracket with a modified clamp for thin-wall conduit. Then in the middle left you can see the wires coming through the speedo cutout in the dash.
We are taking the truck back to KS tomorrow to work on cleaning out Dad's house, so will know for sure that it works well. But, it does sitting in the driveway, so I know it'll be perfect. And, I can just touch the regulator up under the dash so I can tell if it is getting warm, although I'm certain it won't.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Gary, I would rep you for that, but I think I must be in the third jail cell. Very nicely documented. BTW, Radio Shack and probably other places sell replacement 9V battery connectors.
Thread Starter
|
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Thanks, Trav. At least there's good company in this here jail. I wonder if it is like the one James Garner had Bruce Dern in. I think that was Support Your Local Sheriff, and the jail didn't have bars or a door. So he took red paint and dripped it around and told Dern that it was the blood of the last guy that tried to escape.
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
INTRODUCTION:
There has been quite a bit of cussing and discussing the Instrument Cluster Voltage Regulator. One FTE'er recently asked me how to put a volt meter on them to determine if one is working correctly. In an effort to answer that question I started doing a bit of testing and thought I'd share what I've learned. But, along the way I realized that I was having ICVR problems on Dad's truck when the gauges kept indicating that the engine was overheating when I was pretty sure it wasn't. To prove that it wasn't overheating I installed a mechanical temp gauge and learned that the engine was fine but that the gauges were frequently reading very high due to a malfunctioning ICVR. So, what began as an exercise to answer a question (that turned out to be difficult to answer by the way) has morphed into finding a way to solve the persistent problem many of us face with gauges that read incorrectly.
First, a little bit of theory. The ICVR is a voltage chopper that does its work based on a heating coil and a bi-metallic strip with contacts. The coil goes about heating the bi-metallic strip, which then bends due to the different coefficients of expansion of the two metals, and opens the contacts. Then the strip cools and closes, and the process starts all over.
So, that puts out a "square wave" of almost battery voltage at the top (although there is an 8 - 9 ohm resistor in the wiring harness that brings the voltage down some) and zero volts at the bottom. I've attached a shot of two of the waveforms from an oscilloscope, and the vertical scale is 2 volts/division and the horizontal is .1 second. That means the top of the wave, before the upward spike, is about 13 volts and the length of the wave is about .7 seconds.
What does that mean? First, there is no chance you are going to be able to use a run-of-the-mill digital volt meter to measure that because on the DC scale you will get a confusing display of varying numbers depending on how often the sampling is taken. And, that's probably true of the AC scale, but some DVM's might show something somewhat consistent but no where near meaning anything as they are expecting a sine wave and this is nothing near that.
Second, there is no way I can think of to say what the real DC voltage is. Yes, I know the factory manual says it is 5.5 volts, but they didn't tell us over what period it was measured or even how it was measured. I don't think we can reproduce that.
However, it is possible that this waveform gives the same readings on the gauges that a 5.5 volt DC source would give. That will take further testing, which I hope to do some day, but not today. I tried to get there by placing a 1000 microfarad capacitor across the output, but that didn't get it very close to DC, so it would take far more capacitance to accomplish that, which I don't have easily available.
Anyway, I welcome thoughts, suggestions, questions, or whatever.
There has been quite a bit of cussing and discussing the Instrument Cluster Voltage Regulator. One FTE'er recently asked me how to put a volt meter on them to determine if one is working correctly. In an effort to answer that question I started doing a bit of testing and thought I'd share what I've learned. But, along the way I realized that I was having ICVR problems on Dad's truck when the gauges kept indicating that the engine was overheating when I was pretty sure it wasn't. To prove that it wasn't overheating I installed a mechanical temp gauge and learned that the engine was fine but that the gauges were frequently reading very high due to a malfunctioning ICVR. So, what began as an exercise to answer a question (that turned out to be difficult to answer by the way) has morphed into finding a way to solve the persistent problem many of us face with gauges that read incorrectly.
First, a little bit of theory. The ICVR is a voltage chopper that does its work based on a heating coil and a bi-metallic strip with contacts. The coil goes about heating the bi-metallic strip, which then bends due to the different coefficients of expansion of the two metals, and opens the contacts. Then the strip cools and closes, and the process starts all over.
So, that puts out a "square wave" of almost battery voltage at the top (although there is an 8 - 9 ohm resistor in the wiring harness that brings the voltage down some) and zero volts at the bottom. I've attached a shot of two of the waveforms from an oscilloscope, and the vertical scale is 2 volts/division and the horizontal is .1 second. That means the top of the wave, before the upward spike, is about 13 volts and the length of the wave is about .7 seconds.
What does that mean? First, there is no chance you are going to be able to use a run-of-the-mill digital volt meter to measure that because on the DC scale you will get a confusing display of varying numbers depending on how often the sampling is taken. And, that's probably true of the AC scale, but some DVM's might show something somewhat consistent but no where near meaning anything as they are expecting a sine wave and this is nothing near that.
Second, there is no way I can think of to say what the real DC voltage is. Yes, I know the factory manual says it is 5.5 volts, but they didn't tell us over what period it was measured or even how it was measured. I don't think we can reproduce that.
However, it is possible that this waveform gives the same readings on the gauges that a 5.5 volt DC source would give. That will take further testing, which I hope to do some day, but not today. I tried to get there by placing a 1000 microfarad capacitor across the output, but that didn't get it very close to DC, so it would take far more capacitance to accomplish that, which I don't have easily available.
Anyway, I welcome thoughts, suggestions, questions, or whatever.
With A dmm it is possible to get the 5v but you have to use a fluke 289, and with a fluke 190-204 you can set it up to show you 5v also. A dmm might show somewhere on the order of 2v. The sample rate is what throws a regular dmm of, The ivr changes duty cycle all the time. There are a three factors, Temp in the case, input voltage, and Movement. All three are dynamic in a running car.
A question to the rest of you guys, do you really need a constant 5.5? is 5 to low and 6 too high?
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Grants Pass, OR
Here is a data sheet for the device:
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/...s/DE-SWADJ.pdf
.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Grants Pass, OR
Thats the first time I have seen the waveform even reflect somewhat of a square wave. I think thats why the temp gauge is reading higher than usual. You also have to consider that the IVR your are testing is standing still and not even moving. When there is movement in the cast you will not get that square wave anymore. Your square wave is a symptom of the coils not opening fast enough. From what I have done, they unit pulses, but not like the rypical on-off-on. From the testing I have done it looks more like a bad connection / /// /// / // / / / //// // / // completely random in nature. The way it seems to work is the metal is just hot enough to open and close. So it flickers on and off if you can understand what I mean. Not sure if I explain it right.
With A dmm it is possible to get the 5v but you have to use a fluke 289, and with a fluke 190-204 you can set it up to show you 5v also. A dmm might show somewhere on the order of 2v. The sample rate is what throws a regular dmm of, The ivr changes duty cycle all the time. There are a three factors, Temp in the case, input voltage, and Movement. All three are dynamic in a running car.
A question to the rest of you guys, do you really need a constant 5.5? is 5 to low and 6 too high?
With A dmm it is possible to get the 5v but you have to use a fluke 289, and with a fluke 190-204 you can set it up to show you 5v also. A dmm might show somewhere on the order of 2v. The sample rate is what throws a regular dmm of, The ivr changes duty cycle all the time. There are a three factors, Temp in the case, input voltage, and Movement. All three are dynamic in a running car.
A question to the rest of you guys, do you really need a constant 5.5? is 5 to low and 6 too high?
My shop manual says the IVR output is 5.0 VDC but does not specify where to measure and what equipment is used.
I think the voltage must set a bit higher to compensate for the difference between the pulsing OEM IVR and a constant output voltage regulator.
5.0 was too low for the other guy who made one of these with I think it was a 7805?
I am not 100% convinced that a constant output VR will be accurate in all conditions, but probably close enough for a 25+ year old vehicle. Especially considering the cost difference $50+ for an OEM part vs $15 or so.
What do you mean by movement? Are you referring to the varying duty cycle?
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
I measured 5.0V using a cheap HF meter... But that was at the fuel sender with the gauge in circuit. The voltage appeared to be pulsing on and off at a rate 1/2 second. When I get a chance I will take a duty cycle / min max reading with my new UNI-T UT71E. (Chinese meter that has most of the functions of Fluke 289).
My shop manual says the IVR output is 5.0 VDC but does not specify where to measure and what equipment is used.
I think the voltage must set a bit higher to compensate for the difference between the pulsing OEM IVR and a constant output voltage regulator.
5.0 was too low for the other guy who made one of these with I think it was a 7805?
I am not 100% convinced that a constant output VR will be accurate in all conditions, but probably close enough for a 25+ year old vehicle. Especially considering the cost difference $50+ for an OEM part vs $15 or so.
What do you mean by movement? Are you referring to the varying duty cycle?
My shop manual says the IVR output is 5.0 VDC but does not specify where to measure and what equipment is used.
I think the voltage must set a bit higher to compensate for the difference between the pulsing OEM IVR and a constant output voltage regulator.
5.0 was too low for the other guy who made one of these with I think it was a 7805?
I am not 100% convinced that a constant output VR will be accurate in all conditions, but probably close enough for a 25+ year old vehicle. Especially considering the cost difference $50+ for an OEM part vs $15 or so.
What do you mean by movement? Are you referring to the varying duty cycle?
The function you have to use is "PEAK" not dcv. You are getting 5v on the faulty IVR correct? The peak on the 289 tells you the actual peak and its average. When it averages out your peaks you get really close to 5v and some change. What I mean by Movement, it vibrations induced into the ivr. Which can be several things like a lumpy camshaft, off road tires, broken motor mounts ect. ect. Try grabbing your scope and rest it on a vehicle that is idling and you will get the jist of what I am saying. With these gauges everything is relative and some serious thought needs to be addressed. When you have two trucks one with a 165 tstat and 190 tstat both owners will argue what normal readings are since they are significant to the placement of the needle in the gauge. For example, I have a 66 mustang and if I used a 165 tstat the gauge stops right in the middle. Thats where most argue the gauge should be. I change it to a 185 tstat and I am in the 3/4 range. 200 degrees and the gauge is just under the max. In the maximum draw mode of the gauge, is where these tenths of a volt is noticeable. Each tenth raises the needle about 1/32nds to the right for the first couple of tenths, then it rises exponentially. 1/32 turn into 1/16 and the into 1/4. Now thats at iits maximum draw, not under normal temps say 175 or so. Tenths dont make a difference maybe 1/64ths if that. If you guys need 5.5 I can get you something that works and very reliable.
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
It changes the tension of the arm which changes its pulsing.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Grants Pass, OR
I think he is asking about the switching VR replacement module shown in post #94.
I don't believe the OEM IVR has an adjustment. See photo in post #52
I don't believe the OEM IVR has an adjustment. See photo in post #52
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Here is my regulator. I dont carry them in 5.5 but a diode will knock it back down to 5.5. If there is a demand for this I can make them in 5.5. this is just a proto type, eveything I sell has lifetime warranty.
