I am new to the forum, but not new to fords or wrenching on them, but I am completely baffled by a CDE4 transmission problem and need some collective advice on what the issue may be.

So first off the vehicle in question is a 2001 Mazda Tribute LX V6 Duratec with 4 Speed Automatic FWD. 171,000KM. I purchased this SUV originally for the engine for my 04 escape as the 04 spun Rods, but my father in-law is now in need of a vehicle so the parts one needs to be fixed.

So back to the tribute, it is a 01 FWD only. V6 Duratec, when I picked this up it supposedly went forward and had just lost reverse. I actually never seen it drive forward when I picked it up, it was pushed onto my trailer.

What I found after I got it home is if you let it sit and cool down you had reverse and forward for maybe a minute and then it would stop working in either direction. I checked the fluid it had turned brown/black so I dump the fluid and put fresh in, I unhooked the return line for the trans off the cooler and pumped it out with the trans pump, this took most of the day today actually.. it is not pumping or circulating the fluid very well, but once in a while even running it through gears etc it decides to work and if it is in [D] or [R] then the front tires are actually spinning but they tend to stop on there own, so it has a mind of its own.

My Initial thought with the symptoms the trans was giving me, was a straight fluid breakdown. So I figured fluid change. but that didnt help. I added a bottle of lucas trans fix now to see if this would help. Nothing yet. So leaves me to believe I have a sensor or solenoid pack issue. I hooked my auto enguinity scanner up to it and it seems that I have a P0705 code showing for the range selector.

So I am not sure if the range selector sensor under the thermostat housing would cause the transmission to not go forward or reverse if the sensor thinks I am still in park. I can still get my key out, and it starts fine in park and in neutral, so I am just not sure if this would be causing the issue. I did note though that if I pull it down through the gears from park to reverse to neutral to drive that the transmission does go into gear and the engine RPMS drop like they are supposed to just there is no movement.. so I am kind of at a loss. thinking it may be a solenoid or a valve body causing the issue.. any ideas on where to go next with this?

 

This transmission is known for some nasty failures, I have seen the input drum break, pistons crack, band break, converter and pump failures, worn out valve body's, and so on.

The symptoms you have described make me think that the filter is clogged and it is starving for fluid and cannot make pressure to apply the clutches. There are two problems with a clogged filter with this transmission, one, its inside the transmission and you have to tear it apart to get to it, second, is what has clogged it, most likely bits and pieces of failed transmission components.

 

I have a filter here for it, how far burried in the transmission is the filter? and do I need to pull the transmission to get it or can this be done without pulling the transmission?

I am also thinking of installing an external filter on the car same as what the super duties have since I have a spare mount/filter for it and it is just a matter of plumbing it.

I did pull the pan and dump the fluid. no chunks cam out when I pulled the pan last night, but there was some silver particles from components. I am pretty sure the previous owner never did any fluid service on this

Have the pan bolted back on now, just a matter of figuring out if I pull the trans and see what went wrong or if a sensor could be doing it, but the only code I can pick up is the p0705 for the range selector. I may try replacing that first since it is only $40 and probably needs it anyway.

 

To get to the filter you will have to remove the transmission and split the case half's.

A clogged filter is a result from a bigger problem, this transmission will have to be replaced or completely rebuilt if the filter is clogged.

The range sensor cannot cause the transmission to quit pulling, but it does sounds like it need to be replaced along with the transmission.

 

jk080: Doesn't the range selector diddle with the EPC solenoid operation? Fiddle so the pressure is 'lower' when you first engage to avoid 'clunks', and then, once in gear, it bumps it up a bit. Wouldn't it be worth it to check line pressure before tearing it down? That's what I'd do.
I have heard of the trans breaking parts as you noted, and you can spend a small fortune updating to the latest parts if you want a more robust end result. The questions are how much do you want to put into it and how long will you keep the vehicle. Rebuilding makes sense if you will keep it for long enough to amortize the cost, as the monthly payment in effect is a lot lower than car payments. If you really like it, then fix it and keep driving.
tom

 

The range sensor tells the computer what gear you have selected and the computer makes adjustments to the EPC for shift feel and line control. Yes a line pressure test can be a good idea and should tell the story behind his issues, but he said a few things in his post that put the "nail in the coffin" for me about his transmission.


Letting it sit and cool down and then it will take gear and no or low cooler flow are classic signs for a clogged filter on most transmissions. Cooler flow is not regulated by the EPC or the computer, it in most cases comes from the pump to the <acronym title="Page Ranking"><acronym title="Page Ranking"><acronym title="Page Ranking">PR</acronym></acronym></acronym> valve and out to the cooler. I guess he could have a very worn out pump that may cause these kinds of symptoms but the pumps are usually damaged by debris moving through them.

A restricted cooler can also cause low or no flow back to the transmission but it wont cause it to quit pulling and reengage after sitting. The problems with a restricted cooler is in the same boat as the filter, its clogged with transmission debris and it will cause a loss of lube for the gear train, that will result in a complete meltdown of the gear train and will cause the vehicle to quit moving permanently, some cases it wont even roll.

These pans are on the front of the transmission, if he is finding silver particles in the pan I bet there is way more in the bottom of the case (where the filter is).

I replace the range sensor on all CD4E transmissions that I rebuild because they are cheap reassurance and they do fail. My experience with a bad range senor is not up-shifting or falling out of overdrive into a lower gear or shuttle shifting like back and forth between gears

 

Your description of the plugged filter, etc, tells me that if the transmission is repaired, or replaced, the cooler lines and the cooler(S) should be flushed heavily. Perhaps replace the external cooler with a larger aftermarket, and bypass the in-tank cooler? Awfully hard to flush some coolers without leaving debris in the last corners, that will break loose and plug up the valve body, governor, etc immediatly after you get it put back together.
tom

 

I have almost same vehicle, same symptoms and same problems.
'01 Mazda Tribute V6 4WD.
My minor issue was strange shifting behaviour into overdrive. So I replaced the range selector switch, the TSS sensor (turbine shaft speed) and put a Superior shift correction kit in it. Well, only the valve body parts at least.
All went well and O/D behaved much better and as I had expected it too. The TSS was probably all it needed to fix it. So for about 3 weeks of local driving it went spot on, no issues. But then we got set for a 2.5 hour trip and only got 15 minutes down the road. Had a nasty 2-3 shift flare and soon after lost all drive. Arranged a tow home, allowed to cool for half an hour and I had a little bit of drive. I was tempted to start driving home but tow was on it's way and by the time I'd put my seat belt on it was losing drive again, so didn't/couldn't.

I tried to use my compression tester to test line pressure. Not very successful because it holds the needle at peak pressure. But it did show not enough pressure at idle and giving it a few revs it jerked and pulsed up. No steady controlled pressure. Me thinks clogged filter.

I've now pulled the whole lot out, opened and stripped it's guts out. Forward clutch was blackened but still usable, direct clutch was pretty much destroyed and unusable. Cut the filter open, it was pretty cruddy but I don't know how restrictive it is.
I've been told that the Forward/Direct drum often cracks which prevents fluid pressure being able to apply those clutches properly. But for the life of me I can't see any fault with it at all.
So at this stage all I can put it down to is a clogged filter...........

I've just ordered a full rebuild kit including steel plates and a manual to show me how to do it properly.


Yes the filter is buried inside and requires splitting the case and gutting it to get it out.
Basic design FAILURE.
Freakin' unforgivable!
To not have a serviceable filter is deliberate designed obsolescence. Guaranteeing a major failure.
And it's not a good design that will reverse flush successfully either. And whatever will flush out is only going to sit in the case and eventually get sucked in again anyway. The drain plug isn't even the lowest point and probably holds about 2 quarts plus what's in the torque converter that won't drain out. Crap design.

Moral of the story here is;- Proper regular servicing. And as soon as any unusual behaviour occurs, get it checked out ASAP. Things go down hill very quickly when things don't work as they should.

 

I disagree vehemently.
The 'filter' is more of a strainer, and should not be straining very much of anything unless the transmission has been cooked, and the gizzards are disintegrating. Your clutch was burned, and the other clutch gone. It cannot provide drive in any direction without all the clutches.
Once a transmission starts to shed its friction materials, its all over but the fat lady singing.
You have had slippage for a while to destroy the direct clutch pack and gather all the stuff into the filter. I would check the EPC for proper operation as it regulates the line pressure to allow firm to marshmallow soft shifting depending on occasion. Punch it, and the pressure goes high. Accelerate gently, and the shifts are imperceptible. The EPC is playing with the pressure to do that, from what I understand.
If you change the fluid cold, you can get 8 quarts to fall out. That is 2/3 of the total capacity if my memory is on track. I figure dumping that and replacing with new on an irregular basis will extend the lift, a bit any way.
If the fluid smelled bad, and you'll know the smell if you have it, you likely already have damage as stuff got hot to heat the fluid. It may have been breaking down over time to cause the smell if you are lucky.
A transmission that needs a filter ... likely needs to be rebuilt. I have an AXOD that hasn't been touched except for fluid and filters for 250k. It's getting tired, but still pulls ok. Each time the pan was dropped, there was nothing in the bottom. No bits and pieces.
tom

 

Thanks Tom, I think you are pretty much right.

I have learnt something additional which very likely explains everything.
I made the assumption that my transmission had been previously rebuilt to factory condition. Certainly has a replacement torque converter and the date printed on the valve body is 052907.
But what I didn't notice and didn't even think to look for is that it had already had a Transgo shift kit installed in it. And then I merrily go and install a Superior kit in it. Both kits achieve much the same thing, in particular, better more reliable control of line pressure.
But the design approach and method is slightly different and I don't think compatible. The Superior has a very nicely made sleeve without any holes along its sides. Whereas the Transgo sleeve has side holes towards one end and corresponding holes are drilled in the valve body and a hole in the VB plate is blocked. I think what this means is that although the primary pressure is the same, what happens to the excess volume is different. Probably resulting in low lube flow somewhere or less fluid available for the EPC valve. Something like that.

I'm pleased to finally find a cause of the problem. And I've certainly learnt a lot!