I have an 05 Expedition with the 3V 5.4 engine. I have read a lot about the phaser issue and I am pretty sure my engine suffers from some degree of that problem. However I have a horrendous rattle at engine start also. Is this related to the phaser issue or something else? Sometimes the rattle is very loud and other times its barely audible. It rattles for a few seconds then usually goes dull and blends into what I believe is the phaser ticking.

Is this loud rattling at start part of the phaser issue? I am at the point where I am considering selling or trading the truck to get something that better suits my family but no one in their right mind will buy it making this noise at startup.

 

TICKING AND / OR KNOCKING NOISE / STARTUP TSB 06-19-8
RATTLE FROM ENGINE—4.6L / 5.4L 3V
FORD: LINCOLN:
2005 Mustang 2005 Navigator
2004-2005 F-150
2005 Expedition, F-250, F-350

This article supersedes TSB

06-4-7 to update the NOTE

Service Procedure. THE 4.6L 3V AND 5.4L 3V ENGINES ARE
INSTALLED IN SEVERAL VEHICLE PLATFORMS,
ISSUE




WHICH MAY INFLUENCE THE INTENSITY OF

Some vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L NOISE DUE TO VEHICLE DIFFERENCES IN
3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and / or SOUND TRANSMISSION PATHS, HOOD AND
knocking noise after reaching normal operating BODY INSULATION PACKAGES, AND ROOT
temperature, or a rattle upon starting. The noise CAUSE OF THE COMPONENT(S) CAUSING THE
may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. NOISE.
In some cases the noise may be a normal
characteristic of these engines. In other cases the


PRE-CHECKS

noise may require further investigation. Sorting out
1. Make sure you have a detailed description of
and defining the noise as reported by the customer
the noise the customer is concerned with,
is important to successfully diagnose and / or repair
including whether the noise is occurring at idle
the condition.
or above idle speed (does it disappear above
ACTION




1200 RPM), and if the engine is cold, hot, or

Before starting diagnosis, it is critical to determine both when the noise is occurring. These
the specific engine noise the customer is concerned engines generate a lot of “normal” noises, so it
with. The customer should be interviewed to get is critical to confirm the noise the customer is
their detailed perception and description of the concerned with. Determine what environment
noise, and to determine if the noise occurs at idle the customer is in when the noise is most
or above idle speed, and if the engine is cold, hot, noticeable to them (inside passenger
or both. Attempt to duplicate the noise, and compartment, next to building with / without the
determine the source of the symptom. Refer to the driver and / or passenger window open, or
following Service Procedure to help determine the beside the wheel well). Validate by using your
source of the noise and if a repair is needed. own perception.

SERVICE PROCEDURE




2. Compare the noise generated with a new

vehicle, if available, with an ENGINE build date

NOTE




of 3/30/2005 or later on Mustang and 4/18/2005

READ THIS SECTION IN ITS ENTIRETY BEFORE or later on F-150 to F-350, Expedition and
BEGINNING. Navigator vehicles.
3. Diagnose noise when engine is at normal
operating temperature (Oil at 160


° F (71° C) or

above). Verify oil temperature by using a
diagnostic scan tool and monitoring the engine
oil temperature (EOT) PID. Startup rattle may
only occur with cold oil.

NOTE:




The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do

the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper
vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by “do-it-yourselfers”. Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a
Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation
determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article.The information in this Technical Service Bulletin
(TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates.The most recent information is
available through Ford Motor Company’s on-line technical resources.

Copyright




ã 2006 Ford Motor Company Online Publication Date September 13, 2006 PAGE 1

TSB 06-19-8 (Continued)
4. Check the type of oil filter installed on the VCT phasers may knock at hot idle. It may be
vehicle. A dirty or clogged filter may cause a heard inside the passenger compartment, or the
pressure drop. Look for aftermarket brands not wheel well area. Some light noise is normal. The
recognized in the market or a production filter engine may require a cold soak overnight for a full
that has gone beyond the standard Ford diagnosis to effectively be made at hot idle,
recommended change interval. particularly when a VCT phaser is suspected. The
knock is not prevalent at cold temperature.
5. Check for signs of oil brand used and viscosity
(interview customer if needed). Motorcraft




â To test for VCT noise:

SAE 5W-20 Premium Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
or equivalent is recommended. 1. Place the transmission in park or neutral
Once the above pre-checks are complete, check 2. Bring engine oil temperature to 160




° F (71° C)

for sound level from the following components, in or above as indicated by the scan tool “EOT”
the order listed. Compare the sound from these PID.
components to the noise the customer is concerned 3. Allow engine to idle, and determine if noise is
with, to determine the source of the noise. noticeable.

INJECTION / FUEL SYSTEM




4. Set engine speed to over 1200 RPM (if noise is

Injector noise (ticking) is considered normal. Noise a VCT knock, the noise should disappear).
increases with RPM hot or cold and is recognized 5. Return engine speed to idle (verify knock
at the top of the engine. returns).

VALVE TRAIN




If the noise intensity is more than a lightly audible

Lash adjusters can make a ticking / tapping noise knock at hot idle under 1200 RPM at engine
noticeable at any engine RPM / temperature and is operating temperature, replace the cam phaser
audible through the wheel well or an open hood. using the “In-Vehicle Repair” Camshaft Phaser and
However, with the hood down, lash adjuster noise Sprocket procedure found in the Workshop Manual,
can be heard as a light tapping noise through the Section 303-01
wheel well and is considered normal.


START UP RATTLE

Tracing this noise must be isolated to a cylinder Some 2004 F-150 and 2005 F-150, Expedition,
bank. If one bank is louder than the other bank, Navigator, F-Super Duty, and Mustang vehicles may
focus the diagnostic to the loud bank. If both banks have a rattle on startup that lasts 1 to 3 seconds. If
seem loud with the hood down, compare wheel well initial pre-checks have been completed and the
sound level to another comparable vehicle. noise sounds like it is coming from the front of the
Use a stethoscope on the top of the cam cover bolt engine, replace the VCT Phaser Kit. If the engine
heads to confirm which bank is affected. Move the continues to make the rattle noise after the initial
probe from front to rear if necessary. startup do not exchange VCT.
If isolated, only replace the intake and exhaust




PART NUMBER PART NAME

lifters on the affected cylinder bank.




5L1Z-6500-AA Lash Adjuster (2005 Vehicles)

3L3Z-6500-BA Lash Adjuster (2004 Vehicles)

VARIABLE CAM TIMING




3R2Z-6A257-DA VCT Phaser Kit

The 4.6L 3V and 5.4L 3V variable cam timing
(VCT) feature may emit a light knock in normal




WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of

operation and is audible only at idle speed, with a New Vehicle Limited
hot engine (gear selector in park / neutral). Warranty Coverage
However, it may be masked by or mistaken for
other noises generated from either injector firing or
a malfunctioning valve train as described above.
The noise does not affect performance or durability
of the part.

PAGE 2
TSB 06-19-8 (Continued)
OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME




061908B 2005 Expedition / 2.7 Hrs.

061908A 2005 Expedition / 4.5 Hrs. Navigator 5.4L 3V:
Navigator 5.4L 3V: Replace Left Bank Lash
Replace Right Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or
Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket /
Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A,
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B,
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)
6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 061908C 2005 Expedition / 6.7 Hrs.
061908A 2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: 2.2 Hrs. Navigator 5.4L 3V:
Replace Right Bank Lash Replace Both Banks Lash
Adjusters And / Or Adjusters And / Or
Camshaft Sprocket / Camshaft Sprocket /
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, Phaser (6500A, 6256A,
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B,
6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)
061908A 2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: 3.1 Hrs. 061908C 2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: 4.2 Hrs.
Replace Right Bank Lash Replace Both Banks Lash
Adjusters And / Or Adjusters And / Or
Camshaft Sprocket / Camshaft Sprocket /
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, Phaser (6500A, 6256A,
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B,
6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)
061908A 2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: 3.7 Hrs. 061908C 2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: 5.2 Hrs.
Replace Right Bank Lash Replace Both Banks Lash
Adjusters And / Or Adjusters And / Or
Camshaft Sprocket / Camshaft Sprocket /
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, Phaser (6500A, 6256A,
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B,
6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)
061908B 2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: 2.5 Hrs. 061908C 2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: 5.5 Hrs.
Replace Left Bank Lash Replace Both Banks Lash
Adjusters And / Or Adjusters And / Or
Camshaft ) Sprocket / Camshaft Sprocket /
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, Phaser (6500A, 6256A,
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B,
6266A, 6584A, 9424A 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)
061908B 2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: 2.6 Hrs. MT061908 Claim Additional Labor Actual
Replace Left Bank Lash Required As Actual Time Time
Adjusters And / Or


DEALER CODING

Camshaft Sprocket / CONDITION
Phaser (6500A, 6256A, BASIC PART NO. CODE
6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6500 (LASH ADJUSTER
6266A, 6584A, 9424A) REPLACEMENT) 42
061908B 2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: 2.3 Hrs. 6A257 (VCT REPLACEMENT) 42
Replace Left Bank Lash
Adjusters And / Or
Camshaft Sprocket /
Phaser Hrs. (6500A,
6256A, 6250A, 6020A,
6268B, 6266A, 6584A,

9424A)

 

sounds like you have a failed timing chain tensioner or tensioners (one on each side). They are oil pressure driven and they have seals on the back of them that fail. Basically on cold startup when there is no oil pressure, the sound you hear is a loose chain slapping around for that short instance.

I have the same issue. Its only like a $35 part BUT it takes alot of work to get to. You have to remove the valve covers, the timing cover then replace. While you are in there after all that work, may as well put new timing everything (chains, guides, arms, tensioners, phasers etc...) May as well since you are in there.

 

Crap! This sounds like what I have too. Sometimes it doesn't happen at all. Sometimes it's a pretty intense rattle for a second or less, then completely goes away.

 

My question is, will it cause any damage if left alone?

 

Yep! Eventually, the tensioner will get worse and worse, and all that chain slap and loose play in the chain allows the chain to hit the timing cover which in turns takes metal shavings off of it, guess where the metal shavings go---your oil pump. Guess what happens when the oil pump gets clogged?.....

Its best to fix it asap. You can buy all the parts at Rock Auto:

from another forum:

 

thanks for the reply. would the oil filter not catch the shavings? How much would a shop charge for this job?

 

It may, but it they could clog the oil filter up.

Being they have to remove the valve covers, timing cover, and if you are replacing all the timing parts (parts run about $600 for aftermarket ones) and it calls for 10 shop hours, then you are looking at a pretty expensive shop price. Best thing to call around.

It would be worth it if you are not mechanically inclined as you could mess up an engine. Luckily I have a mechanic family member to help me with the shop and tools