Fan kicks on, sounds like a jet engine taking off.

No perceived loss of power regardless the temps

Before cooler change, ~20° delta, after cooler change, ~20° delta. Started creeping up after cooler change. I've only had this truck about 5,000 miles, most of which was a trip to South Dakota from Ohio in early August. This is when I noticed it creeping up.
I don't understand this either, hence my posting.

I replaced the EOT sensor because I have a hard time believing that the oil temp is really that high, plus it was easy and cheap. This reminds me of a friend in high school who didn't believe his oil pressure gauge when it reading real low, shortly afterwards he froze up his engine. This is why I would like to verify it with a second independent temperature gauge but I don't know where or the best way to hook one up.

I'd bet my truck title on it that's it's not the oil cooler being plugged. I did a complete flush with distilled water and VC9 BEFORE starting. The delta was the same afterward as before. No sign of venting from the degas bottle. I'm using Zerex Extended Life HD Formula CAT EC-1 coolant. At the time of the cooler replacement, I also installed a Dieselsite bypass filter and have changed the filter twice since. The old cooler was NOT plugged.

I may not post much here but do a lot of reading and lurking around. I've tried to learn from others ideas and mistakes on here. I'll only post if I'm stumped or can add something of value but you all always beat me to it.

 

What are your cold soak temps before starting? EOT/ECT should be about match and close to ambient temperature...any problem there?

I think this has gone to an M-Chan, Cheezit, or Bismic level. I would like to know also why your oil temps are spiking and you have such a drastic Delta between EOT/ECT. Hopefully one of them will chime in.

Eric

 

instead of buying that new eot sensor, you could have swapped the eot and ect sensor...i believe they are the same....when you did the flush b4 oil cooler did you remove the t-stat, or did you replace it with a new one afterwards....maybe a chunk of something is keeping it from opening...my thought anyways

 

Current outside temp is 52°, truck is sitting inside an uninsulated building, hasn't been driven in a couple of days, cold soak temps are EOT 65.1°, ECT 64°. Normally I see a delta at cold soak of 0.8° - 0.9°

Yes, they are the same sensor. Interesting idea, hadn't though of that. Could have saved me a few dollars. I'm not sure it would make a difference now that the new sensor didn't change anything. New sensor was Ford OEM if anyone is wondering.
The t-stat was in place when I did the flush. I'm not as concerned with the ECTs as I am with the EOT & the delta. Driving unloaded, the ECT only goes up to 195°, pulling the camper it runs in between 205° - 225°, depending on the terrain, head wind, how hard it's pulling, etc. What temps do you run when loaded?

 

I pull a 12K Fifth Wheel. On the flats ECT is about 200 varying a couple of degrees. EOT is about 204 on the flats varying about 200-207 on small hills.

When I start getting into grades less than a mile long ECT will climb to as high as about 220 +/- 5 degrees (Fan has already kicked in at 210F) and takes about 30-60 seconds to drop ECT to about 195F dependant on the length of the grade. EOT lags by 30-60 seconds. By the time it has reached NOT ~204 (+/- ~7) ECT has risen back to about NOT 200F.

BTW Coolant flushed about 30K ago, new thermostat about 1 year ago.

Long grades such as one I have run into in PA (I don't do a whole bunch of hills) ECT rose to about 235F momentarily and was knocked down by the fan. EOT never got above 235F. That was an extended climb on Interstate 276 I think.

Those temps were maximums and I did not sit on them very long before they began dropping off, rapidly after cresting the grade.

Hopefully you can get something out of that.

Still thinking there is a heat exchange issue at the coolant/oil interface.

 

After reading this and doing some thinking, I think I also need to get the ECTs down & not just focusing on the EOT & delta. I'm running considerably higher than these temps. Two things are on my mind.
1) The AC condenser is fairly beat up after nearly 250,000 miles. I'm sure it's restricting airflow some, question is how much. Our local mechanic wants $450 to replace it. I've held back in doing this since the AC is working. If someone would want to see it, I can try to post a photo of it.
2) While the fan does come on, the more I think about it, on the last trip it didn't come on much at all. The terrain was fairly flat and what hills there was I just rolled down the hill picking up speed and coasted up hill, trying to reduce the strain on the engine. Where do I begin in trouble shooting this? What sensor controls the fan? Where all do I look? I have a SGII, would this help? I'm done towing for the year so any on the road trouble shooting will have to be unloaded.
As far as the heat exchange issue, at this point I don't buy into the new oil cooler being plugged. I may be proven wrong at some point and will be the first to admit it if it happens. Is there something else that could make the EOTs high?

 

Just a thought - you should be able to use an infrared thermometer to shoot the oil filter housing to get an idea of the oil temp, as a validation of the gauge. Is there any possibility the coolant flow through the oil cooler has been impeded by the EGR delete install? Kinked hose or similar? Fan speed can be monitored by the SGII, and the speed is controlled by the ECU, not a single sensor. It runs at different RPM's in response to ECT, trans temp, engine load, and other factors based on a programmed strategy in the computer.

Brian

 

did you leave the EGR valve plugged in after you deleted the cooler? Has been said that unplugging it will affect fan operation. Just a thought, I am new to this stuff too

 

Infrared thermometer is a good idea. I would have to go out and buy one. Any other ways to verify the temps?

As far as the fan speed, how would I know what speed it's supposed to be running at? If not working correctly, what can go wrong? Where to start?

EGR valve is still in place and plugged in. I think the fan worked correctly after the EGR delete / oil cooler replacement. Going from memory, seems like it has slowly been coming on later and later.

Does any one have an opinion on this being a wiring harness issue? Just thinking here.

I appreciate every ones responses. Please keep them coming.

 

a few things come to mind, I had a very long battle with a p012f awhile ago and learned a bunch on what the code really means. basicly you have a p012f concern wich is excessive ect/eot split.

1) check the t-stat, pull it off along with the upper hose still attached. fill the hose and see if it just flow out around the t-stat. if so its not sealing and not holding coolant in the radiator correctly.
2) pull the water pump and check the front cover for cavation issue, if there is cavation behind the water pump the distance between the pump and the cover can be to great allowing water to not be circulated correctly
3) check the operation of the fan, the belt and the tensioner. you will need to command fanvar# to 100%, moniter fanss and rpm.
4)check the flat sided pullies like the idler, tensioner and water pump to make sure they are not polished and shiny.
5 you will need to check the radiator for restrictions and reduced flow. it can be done with a pyrometer by looking for cold spots, this method is NOT 100% accurate.

 

If the coolant temps don't exceed 220 *F when towing, then you probably don't have an issue with the fan and the air flow through the fins. Something appears to be restricting the water flow I believe. When that happens there is not enough water flow to cool the oil properly. I believe that is where cheezit was going with the cavitation or the thermostat checks. You might also consider removing the radiator and having it rodded out. Ultimately I believe you also need to be watching the pressure in the degas bottle as you might have excess heat and pressure introduced into the coolant from a head gasket issue. I agree that usually you will also see puking but it is easy enough to test.

 

thats right were i was headed mark. but for the record i have always had bad luck with radiator repairs and as such i would replace over repair

 

Good to know Moe - thanks!

 

See above. Sorry for the additional questions, just trying to understand this.

Temps would spike above 220°, say to 225°, but then drop off. Sounds like good advise. I have the gut feeling I have a head gasket issue as that along with all the above issues, apparently I'm getting coolant into the oil through the combustion process. I'm saying this because I've done 2 oil tests at a local Speedco and they said that sodium and potassium are high, out of spec. No traces of water or glycol though.


Thanks you two. I now have something to go on.

knuss3807

 

1) I understand your thinking, its a common thought process that is logical but it is wrong. to cool liquid in a liquid to air cooler you need to hold the liquid in the cooler long enugh for ram air to have an effect.
2) you looking for for damage that is casue from low coolant levels. sorry there is no spec here. rule of thub if there is cavation replace it. also check the pump impeller for abnormal ware.
)yes that requires a scan tool with some abilities.
4)if the belt fails to gain traction at any point it can casue the belt to slip. the flat side pullies need to maintaine traction on the flat side of the belt. this fan can pull a ton of air when fully applied.

the added questions are a non-issue for me, glad to help.

if the temp is spiking and then droping off basicly fooling mgp (boost) then odds are you have heads lifiting off the deck.
so far as oil testing goes. im not a big beliver in it, some find it usefull however so to that I say to each there own. Its really only becomes practical if you have a baseline history on that unit you are doing it but YMMV.
reasons for for sodium and potassium can be from the brand of oil, fule, fuel additives, or left overs from prior repair.
one thing to keep in mind is you are not dealing with an N/A engine, A high compression boosted engine of this design should not be getting coolant in the oil from failed gaskets. It should only be venting from the degas cap and possibly casuing overheating issues as a result.