2011 F250 Fx4 diesel. I'm pulling a 14' GN dump trailer. My truck squats and I would like advice on which way to go. Should I go to ford and get a quote to put the overload package on or put in an airbag system? If it helps, I want to put a on-board air compressor in for air chuck use and louder horn. Any suggestions on systems?

 

I think the air bags would help with the squatting issue. So would an extra leaf spring. I don't know if you are having the shutter in the rear end when you take off, or not. My truck shutters when I take off when I'm hauling my 5er. I think the extra leaf spring would help more with the shutter issue than air bags since the shutter is a result of axle wrap and stiffening the leaf springs should help lessen the axle wrap. Air bags, IMHO, wouldn't make much difference in axle wrap but would help with sagging and therefore, driveline angle, which would help keep the u-joints in line. I would like FOMOCO to add another/different leaf spring to provide more resistance to the axle wrap. If that fixes my shutter issue then I would add the air bags for the extra stability and air features.

That's kinda my feelings on the issue.

Either way I would involve your dealer so that FOMOCO gets the message to quit trying to make these Super Duties ride like a GM.

 

You may want to take a look at Roadmaster - Active Suspension. It keep the ride soft when unloaded (like airbags) but it also helps in preventing axle wrap. When I finally buy a 5er, I'll probably be getting this setup. Roadmaster Active Suspension Kits | Helper Springs | Overload Springs

 

I have the overloads and don't really like them, by the time the overloads take weight, my truck is already squatting a few inches. If I was hauling heavy often I would go for air bags or Timbrens myself.

 

There are probably those here who'll disagree with what I have to say but I don't believe axle wrap has much, if anything, to do with the shudder on take-off. I believe it is entirely an issue with driveline angle because I can put a couple thousand pounds in my bed and get the shudder on take-off. Removing the load causes the shudder to disappear. Pumping up the air bags causes the shudder to mostly disappear with the load. I don't think adding a couple thousand pounds in the bed will change the amount of axle wrap on take-off to any great degree, therefore my conclusion is that the primary cause is driveline angle.

JMHO

 

Thanks for chimming in, Bob. I love to hear real world examples of folks that have dealt with this problem and had satisfactory results. I don't disagree with your opinion. I respect it. Somehow, somebody has to come up with a solution to this issue.

This subject causes me to swing like a pendulum on what is the real cause.

Hypothetically, if adding weight changes the driveline angle, (and we know it does), thusly causing the shudder, then air bags should help by not allowing the rear leafs to sag quite so much. Agreed?

Hypothetically, if axle wrap is present and it causes the driveline angle limits to be exceeded and causes the shudder, then that means the leaf springs are bending/warping/twisting, allowing the driveline angle to exceed specs. So, if you stiffen the springs whether by new/different one, or by adding an overload of some sort; eg: add-a-leaves, or those plastic/neoprene thingys that go in between your leaf springs, (not Timbrens or air bags), or the Roadmaster kit, which doesn't fit duallys, then that should reduce the axle wrap and therefore keeping the driveline angle within specs therefore reducing/eliminating the shudder. Ahhhhh, I'm so confused.

I wish I was smart enuf to know unequivocally what the real solution was. I'm glad to hear you are getting good results with air bags. That keeps my hopes alive that there is a fix.

 

I'm not sure there is a fix without significant geometry changes of the drivelines. I went the air bag route, the air bags can be aired up when I have a load and I think it helps prevent the squat that induces the shudder. I like that I can let the air out when I have no load and so haven't affected ride quality. If the extra leaves make contact early enough to prevent squat, ride quality would probably be compromised, or at least goes my line of thinking for going with the air bags.

 

I'll throw my vote in for the air bags. I have been quite impressed with them, not on my truck but others. They keep the stock ride quality and you can adjust them on the fly as you want. Scott here, senix, mostly over on the 6.4 forum, has them on his F250. I've seen the set up in person and rode along. If I had a 250 this is the route I would go for sure.

That having been said, my 350 has the overload springs on it. With most loads my truck rides on the overload springs. Daily driving with my normal "stuff" it rides with half the overload springs touching (rear if I remember right). I have a cap on the truck and an extra few hundred lbs. I also added the Rancho 9000 shocks and MyRide system. I like the ride - it rides like a Ford should and you feel every bump. The adjust-ability of the shocks tames the load handling capacity (bouncy'ness) for the most part, but they do nothing for how much of the bumps you feel (fairly stiff springs).

The modern F250's are soft. I would venture to say they are the softest 3/4 ton trucks out there now. It is a big truck with a soft ride. If you add in an airbag system you will have the best of both worlds.

If you go the overload spring route I'd suggest getting the F-350 blocks too. This will pick up the rear end and when you are loaded it will settle back down on the overloads and not "squat" as much.

 

I'm not opposed to the air bags. I used to have them on my 05 Chevy. I liked them. I've had two different sets of Timbren's. One set back in the 80's on my 78 F-250 and then a set on my 07 Chevy.

My dealer is receptive to trying a set of air bags on my dually. We just have to work out the details. I think that means how much he thinks I should pay.
He don't know me very well, do he.

 

^^^ ditto ^^^

I have the camper package with the overloads...and they are nice, but need a lot of squat to start doing the job they were intended for.

My '12 F250 sits level empty...so when I add my 7x20 cargo trailer that has a GVWR at 7000lbs...the truck squats some...and not enough to engage the overloads.

So...I'd recommend going with the airbag setup. In case you haven't seen it...here is a video done by a FTE member. Which I really do like this setup...


2011 Ford Super Duty Airbags Installation - YouTube




biz

 

Hello there Jsgilliam...you might want to check out these two threads i started...airlift57396....extra leaf spring.....I have the same truck you do and feel your pain...or at least i did !!

 

I have the camper package as well as the Air Lifts. I run the bladders at 90 pounds (when the truck is empty/not towing), since my front end is lifted a few inches, and I need to compensate for the angle. Never had any axle wrap or shuddering issues whether towing, or not.
It does ride like a go cart in back unless I'm loaded, but I like the feel of my "sport" suspension (most of the time). The rear end is using the stock Ranchos, while the fron rides on King OEM's. My last dually had the Roadmaster suspension. I liked that also. Lots of choice today!

 

While I have to agree with you on the Tigas - I have to disagree with you on the RAS...

I have a set in my garage I pulled off my 2012 since roadmaster would not honor the 30 day money back guarantee....
nothing burns me up more than a company that does not honor it's advertising !

And also note that while the airbags will level it out,
it will do NOTHING as far as adding to your legal GVWR or GAWR ....
if your overweight, you'll still be overweight

 

Have the 2012 F-250 6.7L. Truck also came with (the one I bought off the lot, I did not order) the snowplow package, so 6000 lb coil springs in front, and only the minimal 3-leaf pack in the rear. Result: Truck was "raked".. sitting about 1" lower in the back than the front with no load!

Putting any kind of load on the rear put the headlights in the sky, and the out-of-balance issue (too much spring in front, not enough in back), made for handling issues when loaded (and not great even when not loaded... as the truck was looking for that 800 pound snowplow blade in front). Solved the problem with a set of Firestone air springs (bags)... the 5000 capacity ones, with the remote control. Just tweak the pressure to get it level, even a bit of weight transferred to the front, and, works like a charm, even when not loaded, the handling is helped. Also, just deflate down to 5-pounds when not loaded... keeps it level (no longer drooping in the back due to the heavy front springs, and not enough springs in the back) and drivability improved.

Considered trying to buy the FoMoCo rear "camper package," heavier leaf pack and an overload spring, and replacing the front coil springs with something softer. Turns out you cannot even order other springs... at least my Dealer could not figure out a way to do it. Need a part number, and said numbers are associated only with the vin number... so, would have to look at someone else's truck that had the camper package (and softer coils in the front) and then order the parts for that truck... strange but true. No "aftermarket" springs can be purchased through Ford, except this way. So, this hassle, plus the rougher ride (the 3-spring pack springs in the camper package are rated some 600+ pounds heavier, and already had heavy duty springs the front, not all bad), pointed me to air springs for the back.

The air springs are better anyway... as they are in effect adjustable overload springs... so, can fine tune it to the load. One just has to be careful to not overload... but that is true with overload leaf springs, too... The issue here is that the F-250 is too car-like (which is not all bad: Rough riding trucks when going to the home depot are no fun, either)..air springs give you the best of both worlds.

Also, just watch/observe the semi-trucks on the interstate... virtually all using air springs these days...

 

I have a F250 with snow prep package, I ended up ordering and putting F350 blocks on the rear axle.

I am completely happy with it, It has a little rake when nothing is hooked up. When I hook my 35' GN up, or bumper pull dump trailer, it sits level.