96' E4OD Revs High, Shifts Hard, Searches for Gears?
#1
96' E4OD Revs High, Shifts Hard, Searches for Gears?
I‘ve searched and read a few threads with folks having similar problems but I feel mine is unique and could use a little additional guidance.
I have a ’96 F250 4x4 351 w/ an E4OD. Sometimes the transmission works fine other times it does this:
From a complete stop it’ll drive in first gear until the engine revs to around 3500rpm and then clunk hard into second gear. After that, while accelerating like normal it may search for a gear to settle on (shifting early usually), or it may shift fine. It’ll usually go into limp home mode (the OD light is flashing). After that, taking off from a complete stop, it’ll rev a little higher in first then clunk into second gear but not as high in the RPMs or as hard. Light usually still flashes.
It’ll do this until the engine is shut off or it will miraculously fix itself. Then the problem may come back. Or it may not. There really is no pattern! Every now and then I’ll be driving at low speeds and the engine will just rev, like it is in neutral, then eventually the transmission will kick in and clunk back into gear but this does not happen that often.
While this is going on it seems like the engine idles lower, and will actually just come short of stalling (but doesn’t) when I go from drive to reverse to back it in. I feel this is important to note.
The speedometer and tach all work fine while this is happening. The tranny fluid is the correct type and appropriately filled.
I can tell when it will mess up right off the bat because it will drop into drive from park or neutral a lot quicker than normal (as in, I drop the stick down into drive and I can feel the gear almost immediately kick in; it doesn’t have the 1 second delay like normal)
I really can’t find a pattern, it just seems like the problem is getting worse. The transmission is getting rebuilt soon anyway but I really need to fix this first. I drive it like once a week so fixing it hasn’t been high on the priority list until now…
I know my way around an automobile pretty well but to me the automatic transmission was always just a mystery device that magically shifted gears. Any help in pinpointing the problem would be greatly appreciated!
pretty well but to me the automatic transmission was always just a mystery device that magically shifted gears. Any help in pinpointing the problem would be greatly appreciated!
I have a ’96 F250 4x4 351 w/ an E4OD. Sometimes the transmission works fine other times it does this:
From a complete stop it’ll drive in first gear until the engine revs to around 3500rpm and then clunk hard into second gear. After that, while accelerating like normal it may search for a gear to settle on (shifting early usually), or it may shift fine. It’ll usually go into limp home mode (the OD light is flashing). After that, taking off from a complete stop, it’ll rev a little higher in first then clunk into second gear but not as high in the RPMs or as hard. Light usually still flashes.
It’ll do this until the engine is shut off or it will miraculously fix itself. Then the problem may come back. Or it may not. There really is no pattern! Every now and then I’ll be driving at low speeds and the engine will just rev, like it is in neutral, then eventually the transmission will kick in and clunk back into gear but this does not happen that often.
While this is going on it seems like the engine idles lower, and will actually just come short of stalling (but doesn’t) when I go from drive to reverse to back it in. I feel this is important to note.
The speedometer and tach all work fine while this is happening. The tranny fluid is the correct type and appropriately filled.
I can tell when it will mess up right off the bat because it will drop into drive from park or neutral a lot quicker than normal (as in, I drop the stick down into drive and I can feel the gear almost immediately kick in; it doesn’t have the 1 second delay like normal)
I really can’t find a pattern, it just seems like the problem is getting worse. The transmission is getting rebuilt soon anyway but I really need to fix this first. I drive it like once a week so fixing it hasn’t been high on the priority list until now…
I know my way around an automobile pretty well but to me the automatic transmission was always just a mystery device that magically shifted gears. Any help in pinpointing the problem would be greatly appreciated!
pretty well but to me the automatic transmission was always just a mystery device that magically shifted gears. Any help in pinpointing the problem would be greatly appreciated!
#2
Checking the fluid level: after the engine and trans are in their operating temperature (preferably after you run some errands, to make the trans shift and work), measure the level with the engine iddling while in Park. I tell you this because what you have is the simptom of a trans low on ATF, or a slipping torque converter (which can also be caused by low fluid).
Since it's the easiest/cheaper choice, check the fluid level correctly (I'm not saying you didn't, but I'm just ruling that out), then look at the TC.
And of course, take one of the few advantages of the E4OD: Check for codes, it could be helpful in finding the cause.
Since it's the easiest/cheaper choice, check the fluid level correctly (I'm not saying you didn't, but I'm just ruling that out), then look at the TC.
And of course, take one of the few advantages of the E4OD: Check for codes, it could be helpful in finding the cause.
#3
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This transmission is completely computer controlled so the FIRST thing you need to do is pull the codes, doesn't matter if the check engine light has been on or not codes can still be stored. Intermittent problems are always the hardest to find so you're going to have to be patient and take notice of any and all things that occur when the trans is acting up, like does the speedo bounce or does the ODO blank out, does the engine surge or is there a flat spot in power at certain throttle positions. The one computer controls both engine and trans in this vehicle and the key sensor inputs are throttle position(TPS) vehicle speed(VSS) on the rear axle and Manual Lever Position(MLPS) on the trans, and note that the computer vehicle speed input is derived from the Programmable Speedometer/Odometer Module (PSOM) on the back of the dash gauge cluster and not directly from the VSS on '92+ trucks. You could have a problem with one or more of these sensors but you could also just have a dirty or corroded connection on one of them creating a problem that comes and goes with no rhyme or reason.
#5
My vote is a bad Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) or in 1996 it is called a TR sensor.
Next would be the TPS.
you say your speedometer is working fine but it could still be a bad Speed Control Module messing up the information from the PSOM to the PCM. You can try unplugging the Speed Control Module and see if that helps.
Also a very common problem is the plug wires at the Solenoid Pack plug. They will burn away from the heat of the exhaust and then make bad contact at the back of the plug. There is supposed to be a shield at that point to keep this from happening but sometimes the shield is left off.
Paul gave a very good description of how the E4OD works above but I just wanted to give my 2 cents.
Next would be the TPS.
you say your speedometer is working fine but it could still be a bad Speed Control Module messing up the information from the PSOM to the PCM. You can try unplugging the Speed Control Module and see if that helps.
Also a very common problem is the plug wires at the Solenoid Pack plug. They will burn away from the heat of the exhaust and then make bad contact at the back of the plug. There is supposed to be a shield at that point to keep this from happening but sometimes the shield is left off.
Paul gave a very good description of how the E4OD works above but I just wanted to give my 2 cents.
#6
This transmission is completely computer controlled so the FIRST thing you need to do is pull the codes, doesn't matter if the check engine light has been on or not codes can still be stored. Intermittent problems are always the hardest to find so you're going to have to be patient and take notice of any and all things that occur when the trans is acting up, like does the speedo bounce or does the ODO blank out, does the engine surge or is there a flat spot in power at certain throttle positions. The one computer controls both engine and trans in this vehicle and the key sensor inputs are throttle position(TPS) vehicle speed(VSS) on the rear axle and Manual Lever Position(MLPS) on the trans, and note that the computer vehicle speed input is derived from the Programmable Speedometer/Odometer Module (PSOM) on the back of the dash gauge cluster and not directly from the VSS on '92+ trucks. You could have a problem with one or more of these sensors but you could also just have a dirty or corroded connection on one of them creating a problem that comes and goes with no rhyme or reason.
However...........Don't discount the possibility of the computer failing.
I keep posting this for reference:
Click this link:A9x ECM's (and same years ECM's) Failures Due to Age
It's worth a shot to see if there's anything visually going on with your computer.
Keep in mind though, a visual inspection may not reveal a hidden electrical problem.
It's free, costs nothing, and takes a little bit of time to visually check.
I'd include this into your "repair strategy".
Good Luck,
Bob
#7
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#8
Ok, I began with a visual inspection. Everything *appears* to be in order. I then fired up the code tester and was a bit perplexed with the output.
I took a video of it and uploaded it to YouTube: 1996 F250 Error Codes - YouTube<o></o>
111
111
1
512
512
Am I reading this correctly? It doesn’t appear that I am...
Beforw I go ripping everything apart I figured I'd start here.
Another thing I did want to make note of is I did change the MLPS (TR) sensor a year or two ago... I do not remember the reason I did but I did...
Another thing I'd like to make note of is the TC is only about four years old and has hardly been used/beat on.
I took a video of it and uploaded it to YouTube: 1996 F250 Error Codes - YouTube<o></o>
111
111
1
512
512
Am I reading this correctly? It doesn’t appear that I am...
Beforw I go ripping everything apart I figured I'd start here.
Another thing I did want to make note of is I did change the MLPS (TR) sensor a year or two ago... I do not remember the reason I did but I did...
Another thing I'd like to make note of is the TC is only about four years old and has hardly been used/beat on.
#9
Did you have the engine running when you did the test?
To run the key on engine off test and to get stored codes the engine has to be not running.
Yes that is what the codes are, you read them right. The 512 code just means you may have disconnected the battery and that will set that code. To clear the codes you just ground the STI wire, turn on the key and when the MIL starts to flash remove the ground from the STI wire and the codes will be cleared.
Never disconnected the battery to clear codes. The only time you need to disconnected the battery to reset the PCM Computer is if you installed a new sensor (not an actuator).
The 1 code is just a space between the two sets of codes.
To run the key on engine off test and to get stored codes the engine has to be not running.
Yes that is what the codes are, you read them right. The 512 code just means you may have disconnected the battery and that will set that code. To clear the codes you just ground the STI wire, turn on the key and when the MIL starts to flash remove the ground from the STI wire and the codes will be cleared.
Never disconnected the battery to clear codes. The only time you need to disconnected the battery to reset the PCM Computer is if you installed a new sensor (not an actuator).
The 1 code is just a space between the two sets of codes.
#10
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