The starter on my 223 6cyl engages on it's own with the engine running, making a horrible noise and grinding the teeth off the starter gear.
I don't see how this bendix works....i know it has to slide to engage or disengage.
My questions.......

Do all i need is a new bendix ?
Is this a poor design and will a new one last ?
Can i up grade to a more modern style starter ?

Please help !!!

 

If your starter is engaging on its own, without turning the key...
I would check the starter solenoid, ignition switch and wiring, before actually doing anything with the starter itself...

Hope this helps...

Lobo

 

I was thinking about the circutry for the starter, but it made me think and maybe i should clarify my snag......

The starter gear seems to be just dragging into the flywheel gear, not a full engagement. I did notice that each time the grinding occured the lights dimmed, but i think that was because the starter was being driven by the engine.

Shaune

 

I don't know what to say now. It's very hard to diagnose electrical problems without actually looking at what is happening. But, you said something that could just be our clue. When the engine is running, and the starter kicks in, it´s impossible for it to engage completely. And... As far as I can remember, when you let the key go, the solenoid disconnects the positive wire that goes to the starter, so, no power can go to it, or came from it. Then, your lights should not get dimmed when that happens.
Of course, I could also be mistaken... There are a lot of things that could go wrong with starters..

Regards,
Lobo

 

I haven't taken my starter apart for restoration yet but I'm going to dive into this thread anyway. Feel free to tell me I've got it wrong - I hope I don't.

You didn't mention your truck year but here is a 1956 starter drive illustration. I "think" they are pretty much the same for a number of years on either side of 1956.



1. With the key off and the engine off, the starter gear subassembly is retracted and is disengaged from the flywheel ring gear teeth.

2. Whe you turn the key to the start position, the starter rotates very fast initially because it has no load on it (the starter gear is retracted and disengaged).

3. As the starter comes up to full "no-load" speed, the anti-drift pin comes out of it's detent due to centrifugal (centripetal) force and the drive gear subassembly rotates up the starter shaft screw threads until it engages the flywheel.

4. When the starter gear engages the flywheel it slows considerably as the requirement to turn the engine loads down the starter. This causes the lock pin to drop into the lock pin detent and lock the starter gear in the fully extended position.

5. As the starter (and the engine) rotate faster and faster, the engine starts. (hopefully )

6. You release the key from the start position and as the engine RPM's go above the range 310 to 390 (according to the shop manual), the starter drive lock pin comes out of the lock pin detent due to centrifugal (centripetal) force and the drive gear subassembly rotates down the starter shaft screw threads until it disengages the flywheel completely.

7. When the starter gear subassembly is fully retracted, the anti-drift pin drops into its detent since neither the engine or the starter motor is causing the shaft to rotate fast enough any more to "throw" the pin out of the detent.

Lobo is right about electrical systems, it's hard to fix 'em without looking at 'em (except for WIPER MOTOR MAN!) .

It seems to me that there are two possibilities:

1. Your anti-drift pin in your starter drive is not working correctly and is allowing the starter gear to engage the flywheel with the engine running. The fix is probably to replace the starter drive assembly. A properly working unit should last a long time and be quite reliable.

2. The other possibility is that your starter drive if fine but the starter motor is getting current intermittently at inappropriate times. This might happen if you have a bad starter solenoid or ignition switch.

One way to figure out which of these problems you have would be to start up the truck and then disconnect the big cable that goes from the solenoid to the starter. That way, it's impossible for the starter motor to get juice. Drive the truck for a while and if you don't notice the problem recurring, you likely have a bad solenoid or starter switch. If the problem continues with the starter cable disconnected, you probably have a bad starter drive. If you find you have the electrical problem, let us know and we'll give you a simple way to test if it's the solenoid or the starter switch.

 

Great post, George!
Nothing left to say about it.

Lobo

 

I was drawn to this thread because my ears were burning as if someone were talking about me. Weird, huh? LOL!

At any rate, my vote is for an electrical problem given that your headlights are dimming when the gremlin strikes. Even if it were a mechanical problem, the drive would have to completely engage and spin the starter at a pretty good clip to create any sort of electrical anomaly AND the starter solenoid would have to be closed to transfer said anomaly to the rest of the electrical system. This would not be possible since the starter will try to run any time the solenoid is closed. The only possibilities that I can see here are that either you have a short in the starter solenoid engagement circuit or your ignition switch or starter push button is bad. The solenoid itself may be bad as well, but I don't think so. I'll explain why in a minute. I think that George has the right idea for troubleshooting, but I personally would remove the small wire on the front of the solenoid first instead of the cable going to the starter. If the starter disengages or the problem disappears, you'll know for sure that it's in the starter button or ignition switch circuit, depending on the year and whether or not the button is still in use. If it continues to engage or try to engage with the small wire off, then pull the cable to the starter. If that clears the fault, then the trouble is in the solenoid. I doubt that since it manifests itself after the engine is already running and the solenoid and starter have disengaged from starting it. Solenoids can stick during engine cranking and not disengage when the engine fires, but I can't see any possibility that a faulty solenoid would close again on it's own since they are spring loaded.

 

Hey Joe, are you gonna get a superhero costume - you know, with a cape and all that says "WIPER MOTOR MAN". You'd certainly stand out in a crowd! Might even get ANCO or somebody to sponsor you at PF and other events. You could use the money to get cool stuff for your truck.

 

Uh, you've been reading Nathan's comic books again, haven't you? Go play with your truck George. Run along now!

 

"Help me Wiper Motor man ........., Help Me, my intermittents aren't working again !!!!!!!!!

I better get to Tennessee, I'm gettin an itchy typing finger.

Laynrubber,

Wiper Motor Man will have you fixed in a jiffy. He's the best. He got me fixed up in under two months with about 58 posts. Didn't charge me a dime either.

 

Laynrubber

Seriously though, I think I would be buying a starter button and a solenoid right now. They are not expensive. You are going to trash your ring gear and starter in the very near future if you spend much time diagnosing this one. I completely agree that this is electrical.

You are sure this is not a case of the starter failing to disengage? It occurs after the engine has been running for minutes?

 

Hey don't bring me into this. And FYI I only have 10 comics and they are very old crappy ones. My brothers had the good ones.

 

Well thanks all for the ideas to cure this problem.....but it hasn't happened again since that 2 days. I am prepared to unplug the solenoid if it happens again; and also a socket and rachet for the starter cable. After thinking about it some more i think the ign switch maybe at fault, and will be changing it sometime.
I will post here again if it happens and what i find. Thanks.