Vacuum Elimination and Computer Issues
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
I'm with Bruno2 and Gary on this; keep it as simple as possible. As I a paint chemist I had to deal with this EPA stuff all the time, and most of it is poorly thought out BS.
When it comes to pollution control, the most important thing is to control oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). Contrary to the EPA theories, which stated that we must control Hydrocarbons to control smog, The National Academy of Sciences in an EPA/DOE commissioned study, found that control of hydrocarbons is impossible because their sources are 70% natural (aka trees and vegetation).
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
The parts that control NOx are EGR and a high quality catalytic converter. The parts that control hydrocarbons are essentially like peeing in the ocean; it might make you feel good but it doesn't accomplish anything
When it comes to pollution control, the most important thing is to control oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). Contrary to the EPA theories, which stated that we must control Hydrocarbons to control smog, The National Academy of Sciences in an EPA/DOE commissioned study, found that control of hydrocarbons is impossible because their sources are 70% natural (aka trees and vegetation).
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
The parts that control NOx are EGR and a high quality catalytic converter. The parts that control hydrocarbons are essentially like peeing in the ocean; it might make you feel good but it doesn't accomplish anything
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, GA
I'm with Bruno2 and Gary on this; keep it as simple as possible. As I a paint chemist I had to deal with this EPA stuff all the time, and most of it is poorly thought out BS.
When it comes to pollution control, the most important thing is to control oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). Contrary to the EPA theories, which stated that we must control Hydrocarbons to control smog, The National Academy of Sciences in an EPA/DOE commissioned study, found that control of hydrocarbons is impossible because their sources are 70% natural (aka trees and vegetation).
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
The parts that control NOx are EGR and a high quality catalytic converter. The parts that control hydrocarbons are essentially like peeing in the ocean; it might make you feel good but it doesn't accomplish anything
When it comes to pollution control, the most important thing is to control oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). Contrary to the EPA theories, which stated that we must control Hydrocarbons to control smog, The National Academy of Sciences in an EPA/DOE commissioned study, found that control of hydrocarbons is impossible because their sources are 70% natural (aka trees and vegetation).
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
The parts that control NOx are EGR and a high quality catalytic converter. The parts that control hydrocarbons are essentially like peeing in the ocean; it might make you feel good but it doesn't accomplish anything
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Contrary to the EPA theories, which stated that we must control Hydrocarbons to control smog, The National Academy of Sciences in an EPA/DOE commissioned study, found that control of hydrocarbons is impossible because their sources are 70% natural (aka trees and vegetation).
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
The NAS told the EPA to control the trigger to the reaction, which is NOx, to control smog. EPA didn't like this (meant backtracking on previous regulations) and refused to publish the study so NAS published it themselves (550 pages)
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 4
Not calling you out or saying your a liar or anything whisler, and we all know a lot of EPA is BS. But, a lot of it IS good too.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
My Technical Director had a copy of the published work in the late '90s. That book and the discussions that we had about the study are the source of my information. I can't say that I read the entire 550 pages but I believe he did. I did, however, read important parts of the study and the conclusions of the NAS.
Since he retired quite some time ago and moved to Georgia, I don't have the book in my possession but I will try to find the title.
Since he retired quite some time ago and moved to Georgia, I don't have the book in my possession but I will try to find the title.
Last edited by whisler; Apr 10, 2012 at 07:11 PM. Reason: spelling
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
Did not find the book title in my search but found some supporting info.
Untitled Document
In this link I find one bit of contradiction, in that they refer to the high level of natural HC in Atlanta GA due to the highly vegetative nature of the area, but then use a reference to remote areas as having low levels of HC. In my neck of the woods, remote area are highly vegetative and so would be high in natural HC. Possibly some PC thinking here!
Air pollution emissions
This link states the same conclusion that the study showed, but from someone from outside the US.
I haven't contacted my old boss for several years but will try to get in touch and see if he has the book still.
Untitled Document
In this link I find one bit of contradiction, in that they refer to the high level of natural HC in Atlanta GA due to the highly vegetative nature of the area, but then use a reference to remote areas as having low levels of HC. In my neck of the woods, remote area are highly vegetative and so would be high in natural HC. Possibly some PC thinking here!
Air pollution emissions
This link states the same conclusion that the study showed, but from someone from outside the US.
I haven't contacted my old boss for several years but will try to get in touch and see if he has the book still.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Didn't this thread go off on a tangent???
The OP is going to need a vacuum line run to the climate controls as well.
I had no idea a 351 H.O. would be found in an '86 F-150.
Thought the Duraspark II, Non-Catalyst engines would only be found in >8k GVW vehicles.
The only computer in this system is the ignition control module.
EGR is really only there to reduce combustion temperature (NOx) and control lean knock under cruise and part throttle acceleration.
The OP is going to need a vacuum line run to the climate controls as well.
I had no idea a 351 H.O. would be found in an '86 F-150.
Thought the Duraspark II, Non-Catalyst engines would only be found in >8k GVW vehicles.
The only computer in this system is the ignition control module.
EGR is really only there to reduce combustion temperature (NOx) and control lean knock under cruise and part throttle acceleration.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Didn't this thread go off on a tangent???
The OP is going to need a vacuum line run to the climate controls as well.
I had no idea a 351 H.O. would be found in an '86 F-150.
Thought the Duraspark II, Non-Catalyst engines would only be found in >8k GVW vehicles.
The only computer in this system is the ignition control module.
EGR is really only there to reduce combustion temperature (NOx) and control lean knock under cruise and part throttle acceleration.
The OP is going to need a vacuum line run to the climate controls as well.
I had no idea a 351 H.O. would be found in an '86 F-150.
Thought the Duraspark II, Non-Catalyst engines would only be found in >8k GVW vehicles.
The only computer in this system is the ignition control module.
EGR is really only there to reduce combustion temperature (NOx) and control lean knock under cruise and part throttle acceleration.
As for the HO, one of the trucks I parted out was an '85 light-duty F150 with a 351 HO. It was DS-II with a cat, but no EEC. However, it seemed to have more plumbing than the 351W with DS-III & EEC that was in the '82 Explorer. It was a real rat's nest of hoses, check valves, switches, and such. I can understand the OP's desire to simplify things.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Gary,
Good to know the H.O. was available in a light duty as late as '86. I was unaware of that.
MOFORDF150,
As has been said certain vacuum lines; like the distributor, PCV valve, brake booster, climate control and transmission modulator (if you have one) are going to have to stay.
If you want to lose the EGR be prepared to buy a kit and recurve the distributor.
The EGR won't work correctly without the thermostatic valve you already removed anyhow...
You likely will lose power and mileage in the process.
I don't think there's anything to expect from your computer.
In fact, I don't know what computer you could have if it's a DSII system.
Hope you get it sorted out and your new F-150 will reliably get you and your motorcycle to your riding spot!
Good to know the H.O. was available in a light duty as late as '86. I was unaware of that.
MOFORDF150,
As has been said certain vacuum lines; like the distributor, PCV valve, brake booster, climate control and transmission modulator (if you have one) are going to have to stay.
If you want to lose the EGR be prepared to buy a kit and recurve the distributor.
The EGR won't work correctly without the thermostatic valve you already removed anyhow...
You likely will lose power and mileage in the process.
I don't think there's anything to expect from your computer.
In fact, I don't know what computer you could have if it's a DSII system.
Hope you get it sorted out and your new F-150 will reliably get you and your motorcycle to your riding spot!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 4
87 was the last year for a carburetor in Ford trucks. 351 HO 4v and 460's were the only ones left, and they had DSII.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
What I didn't realize was that an H.O. could be found (with Cats) in a light duty truck this late.
I had thought it was only 'Heavy Duty' vehicles (with Non-Catalyst) that had a carbureted DSII by this time...
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Im working on a very similar project, taking a bad 351w 2v out of my 84 F250 and swapping in a 79 351w without emissions (not even the ports on the back of the heads for the extra EGR stuff). The engine came out of an 85 F-150 Explorer that had already been converted over so Im just directly swapping everything from the 85 to my truck. I've been taking some pictures and will be vacuum eliminating what I can and swapping over the wiring and throttle linkage this weekend, so hopefully I can show you all finished pictures of the process.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Thanks Everyone
You all are great once I let you get going. learned some good stuff. Decided to just remove smog stuff and stay with the egr, it was still intact so I will re-run and leave it there. The rest was a pile of semi-plugged goop so it went by the wayside. I will be slapping on the carb tomorrow. Let you all know how I did.
I do appologize for my rant, looking back it made me sound like a little girl. I have put in some hours at work and am a little b--chy. Thanks for all the good info.
I do appologize for my rant, looking back it made me sound like a little girl. I have put in some hours at work and am a little b--chy. Thanks for all the good info.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
You all are great once I let you get going. learned some good stuff. Decided to just remove smog stuff and stay with the egr, it was still intact so I will re-run and leave it there. The rest was a pile of semi-plugged goop so it went by the wayside. I will be slapping on the carb tomorrow. Let you all know how I did.
I do appologize for my rant, looking back it made me sound like a little girl. I have put in some hours at work and am a little b--chy. Thanks for all the good info.
I do appologize for my rant, looking back it made me sound like a little girl. I have put in some hours at work and am a little b--chy. Thanks for all the good info.
) Actually, good apology and it is accepted. All of us get that way at times.And, good plan on the vacuum and EGR. Please let us know how it goes.