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  #46  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
A baseless conspiracy theory, there is no such restriction. The real reason diesels from Europe typically aren't for sale here is both lack of demand for diesel cars as well as the differing emissions standards between us and Europe. The European emissions regulations are slightly less draconian than our own, and therefore the vast majority of diesels over there could not meet the requirements set by our EPA.

Anybody can cook up some baseless story and sell it as fact, but that doesn't make it correct.
Well then, I guess you told me. I guess I'll just tell Luc that. Unfortunately, the demand is there but you have to have product in order for a demand to occur. VW cannot sell enough of their TDI's because they can't make enough of their diesels. Just like the pent-up demand for a small diesel started this thread, it doesn't mean that there is not interest in manufacturing of a consumer diesel. After all, you own a diesel what was your "demand" in buying it. You could of just ordered a 6.2L couldn't you? I guess you just didn't follow your demand theory did you? I remember the bad old day's of the 1970's when GM came out with those awful gas/diesel disasters caused by the demand of the Arab oil embargo. They were horrible cars not designed to last. The demand was there: americans still wanted to buy big cars but did not want a big gasoline hog engine. Unfortunately, the demand lasted about as long as the V8 diesel did, about two years until the driver figured out that in order to save money on fuel they had to purchase a smaller vehicle with a V6.

So don't tell anyone that the demand for a fuel efficient vehicle is not there. The motor industry is following the lead of the US Government by making alternative fueled vehicles and not going back to what they do best, make an efficient internal combustion engine, and in this case, a high milage small displacement diesel for passenger cars. The europeans have been using diesels for years. My daughter went to England last year for a wedding and rented a Mercedes SUV with a diesel. She was there for one week and turned it in and it had more than 1/2 tank left. $40 in diesel for one week driving in England, not bad I'd say.

Here is a pro/con article on small car diesels and the authors make the case that the reason the diesel is not accepted in the USA is because it is "dirty" like a trash truck, but the rebuttal from European manufacturers would make a F250 owner proud because of the perceived dirt that comes out of an older diesel.

Why Can't We Buy Small European Diesels in the U.S.?

This is from scientific american: Why European Diesel Cars Are Not Available in the U.S.: Scientific American

"Since the advent of the automobile age in the U.S., gasoline has been king of the road; today upwards of 95 percent of passenger cars and light trucks on American roads are gas-powered. And the federal government has done its part to keep it that way, taxing diesel at a rate about 25 percent higher than gasoline. A recent assessment by the American Petroleum Institute, an oil industry trade group, found that federal taxes accounted for 24.4 cents per gallon of diesel but only 18.4 cents per gallon of gasoline."

I rest my case.
 
  #47  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelangelo
I rest my case.
Do you? You never said anything about the fuel tax conspiracy that I was disagreeing with!

Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
So don't tell anyone that the demand for a fuel efficient vehicle is not there. The motor industry is following the lead of the US Government by making alternative fueled vehicles and not going back to what they do best, make an efficient internal combustion engine, and in this case, a high milage small displacement diesel for passenger cars. The europeans have been using diesels for years.
Never did I say that the demand wasn't there. My point was that it's much more difficult to build and sell an efficient, cost effective diesel engine here than it is over there. It would take a significant amount of increased efficiency in order to justify the increased purchase price of a diesel engine, and with current emissions regulations that's a tough thing to do.

So I'll say it again: There is no conspiracy to bring in more taxes by not permitting efficient engines. Which was the whole point of my previous post, and which you completely failed to address.
 
  #48  
Old 10-08-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
Do you? You never said anything about the fuel tax conspiracy that I was disagreeing with!



Never did I say that the demand wasn't there. My point was that it's much more difficult to build and sell an efficient, cost effective diesel engine here than it is over there. It would take a significant amount of increased efficiency in order to justify the increased purchase price of a diesel engine, and with current emissions regulations that's a tough thing to do.

So I'll say it again: There is no conspiracy to bring in more taxes by not permitting efficient engines. Which was the whole point of my previous post, and which you completely failed to address.
May be conspiracy is the wrong terminology, I'll give you that, Its nearly impossible for one to prove a conspiracy when it may involve the government. I still stand by my statement that if more people would purchase a diesel and get 60mpg that the government both state and local would loose a significant tax income from consumers purchasing less gas versus those who would purchase diesel even though diesel taxes are higher. If I can get 30 mpg in a diesel and only 20 in a gas burner you use 30% less diesel and get better gas milage. On the flip side, with the taxes set higher on diesel that artificially penalizes the diesel owner because the tax cost is not really meant for the consumer but for the over-the-road driver, ships, and other large diesel users who HAVE to pay the taxes in order to survive. You and I are being penalized because we are the small time users of diesel and also feel the environmental consequences. Like the article from both entities said, diesel is popular over in Europe because it is cost effective not because it is cleaner. Here in the states consumer diesel manufacturers are being forced to environmentalize their engines in order to fulfill a a non-need by environmentalists that are perceived to be endemic in diesel engines.

Also you need to go back to see what you wrote about the demand: "for sale here is both lack of demand for diesel cars as well as the differing emissions standards between us and Europe".

And I agree with your statement about differing emission standards. But pure economics states that manufacturers create the demand not the consumer. If manufacturers don't make a product the consumer sure as hell can't.
 
  #49  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
Here in the states consumer diesel manufacturers are being forced to environmentalize their engines in order to fulfill a a non-need by environmentalists that are perceived to be endemic in diesel engines.
Complete agree here.

Originally Posted by Michaelangelo
And I agree with your statement about differing emission standards. But pure economics states that manufacturers create the demand not the consumer. If manufacturers don't make a product the consumer sure as hell can't.
But completely disagree here. There is supply and demand for just about everything; the manufacturer controls the supply curve and the consumers control the demand curve. Where they intersect is called equilibrium. I've taken several economics classes and every textbook I've ever seen states that demand is created by the consumer, not the manufacturer.

There are lots of great ideas that are made every day that flop because there isn't a market for it. The Chevy Volt comes to mind. Hugely efficient vehicle in the eyes of most, but nobody wants one.
 
  #50  
Old 10-08-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
VW cannot sell enough of their TDI's because they can't make enough of their diesels.
This is one of the craziest comments I've seen since Kajtek1 was posting here
 
  #51  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
This is one of the craziest comments I've seen since Kajtek1 was posting here
how is it crazy, if you can't keep up with demand then you can't sell them. You know, demand, that seems to be the problem with this whole comment section. Read the first statement.

Its no wonder that anyone want to comment on this forum, with guys like you hanging on every word somebody writes. Its almost as bad as the F150 forum where everybody knows everything. Give it up and lighten up your comments.
 
  #52  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
how is it crazy, if you can't keep up with demand then you can't sell them. You know, demand, that seems to be the problem with this whole comment section. Read the first statement.
I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding a TDI VW. In fact I found a grand total of 95...yes 95...TDI Volkswagens in stock near me. These include model years 2012 and 2013 Golfs, Passats, and Jettas.

They are keeping up with demand just fine. If anything there is a glut of TDI Volkswagens up here.
 
  #53  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I have never heard of anyone having trouble finding a TDI VW. In fact I found a grand total of 95...yes 95...TDI Volkswagens in stock near me. These include model years 2012 and 2013 Golfs, Passats, and Jettas.

They are keeping up with demand just fine. If anything there is a glut of TDI Volkswagens up here.
well then have them send them down here to the south.

I give up. and your a sponsor of this forum? Take me off.
 
  #54  
Old 10-08-2012, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelangelo View Post
well then have them send them down here to the south.

I give up. and your a sponsor of this forum? Take me off.
Nope, not a sponsor. Just a volunteer.
 
  #55  
Old 10-09-2012, 08:01 AM
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the reason you have a hard time finding diesel cars in most parts of the US is because they simply do not sell. most people don't want diesels.
even the top of the line mercedes cars are mostly gas, because the diesels just sit in the dealerships collecting dust before they are practically given away.
 
  #56  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:37 PM
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A long while ago I saw a 4 cylinder Ford diesel that was 1/2 of a 7.3 IDI.
They were being used in some other country.
Now I can't find anything on it.

Any one have any info on it, or was I dreaming?
 
  #57  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:32 AM
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You were not dreaming. Check out the ford websites for different countries. Europe, South America, Australia.
 
  #58  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by archangel View Post
A long while ago I saw a 4 cylinder Ford diesel that was 1/2 of a 7.3 IDI.
They were being used in some other country.
Now I can't find anything on it.

Any one have any info on it, or was I dreaming?
I think it might have been a dream, but feel free to correct me.

Ford brazil used an I6 6.4 liter in the SD's...
Other countries, apparently cummins engines were in SD's.

smaller engines, there was a 2.8 powerstroke, but was not like the 7.3 really.

There might be more, I dunno.
 
  #59  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:20 PM
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  #60  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:31 PM
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Emissions is probably the biggest reason. Add onto that the fuel efficiency of the new small displacement-direct injection-turbo gasoline engines vs the diesel's (fuel economy going up vs going down, respectively).

The argument of people not wanting a diesel car is invalid. The new TDI's are selling like hotcakes, even with the price premium of the diesel option, especially the JSW's (sportwagens).
 

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