payload weight
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,296
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From: muskegon mi.
engineers whatch gonna do I have been banging heads knees and elbows with those folks for 40 years....the math tells them .. it should work... if it dosent...you did it wrong...if it works your way...then its wrong...there smart peeps but to much classroom not enough dirt....
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 457
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From: SW ND
You can't be serious. Take tape measure and measure from the ground to the top of the fender well. Front is a and back is b. Unloaded this is a base measurement. Just like a scale, the fender wheel is your indicator on the scale. The tape measure shows how much.
I did this with my old pickup, and empty gooseneck. I may not remember numbers right, but unloaded i was at 40.5 and 40.5. Hooked up I was at 41.5 and 39.25 After the super spring installation unloaded changed to 40 and 41.5 with the trailer hooked up Front end went to 40.5 and rear was 40.5.
That's how I used a tape measure to show that weight was moving around. Is that alot, well when 130 lb me hops into the back of the pickup and it doesn't move that much. Nor when I'm changing oil and standing on the grille guard does it move that much.
Don't forget that even though the weight in the bed only cover a small area, the force is transmits down, is transfered to the frame which transfers itself to the front and back, springs. Depending where it's located in the bed in relation to the wheels, depends how much is pushing down on each wheel.
I did this with my old pickup, and empty gooseneck. I may not remember numbers right, but unloaded i was at 40.5 and 40.5. Hooked up I was at 41.5 and 39.25 After the super spring installation unloaded changed to 40 and 41.5 with the trailer hooked up Front end went to 40.5 and rear was 40.5.
That's how I used a tape measure to show that weight was moving around. Is that alot, well when 130 lb me hops into the back of the pickup and it doesn't move that much. Nor when I'm changing oil and standing on the grille guard does it move that much.
Don't forget that even though the weight in the bed only cover a small area, the force is transmits down, is transfered to the frame which transfers itself to the front and back, springs. Depending where it's located in the bed in relation to the wheels, depends how much is pushing down on each wheel.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: SW ND
engineers whatch gonna do I have been banging heads knees and elbows with those folks for 40 years....the math tells them .. it should work... if it dosent...you did it wrong...if it works your way...then its wrong...there smart peeps but to much classroom not enough dirt....
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: SW ND
Post #11
This is new. How air helper bags can transfer the weight to the other axle?
Post 15
I know the bags will slightly shift the center of gravity UP, but how it will move horizontally?
I just told you how much change I measured using a helper spring. With a given weight. Actually there was two weights one with a load and one w/o a load. Both instances the helper spring moved weight to the front axle. Which you said can't happen.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,272
Likes: 207
From: Cincy area
12 years of schooling? I hope you've included high school as a part of that. Dang engineers have to go to more schooling than the doctors that keep them going.
There is more weight transfer than what your guestimating. Several companies manufacter air bag kits for driver comfort? If it helps with control, braking and ride quality it has to affect weight distribution also.
There is more weight transfer than what your guestimating. Several companies manufacter air bag kits for driver comfort? If it helps with control, braking and ride quality it has to affect weight distribution also.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
airbags do not transfer any weight to the front axle. Plain and simple.
If you hook up a gooseneck/5th wheel and your front actually raises, you have bigger problems than rear sag... or maybe a faulty tape measure.
The limit as the pressure in air bags reaches ∞ is a rigid suspension on the rear axle. Use this and test the theory. Put a jack between your rear axle and frame, then separate axle from frame while measuring weight on the front. The weight on the front won't change much.
Airbags can cause a potentially dangerous situation for conventional trailers as they take the springiness out of the rear suspension. Instead of the tongue weight compressing the rear springs a lot and lifting the front a little, there is suddenly a rigid fulcrum to lift the front... bad idea.
Airbags DO NOT transfer weight. They are simply an adjustable suspension. Would weight be transferred forward if you added a leaf to the pack? No.
If you hook up a gooseneck/5th wheel and your front actually raises, you have bigger problems than rear sag... or maybe a faulty tape measure.
The limit as the pressure in air bags reaches ∞ is a rigid suspension on the rear axle. Use this and test the theory. Put a jack between your rear axle and frame, then separate axle from frame while measuring weight on the front. The weight on the front won't change much.
Airbags can cause a potentially dangerous situation for conventional trailers as they take the springiness out of the rear suspension. Instead of the tongue weight compressing the rear springs a lot and lifting the front a little, there is suddenly a rigid fulcrum to lift the front... bad idea.
Airbags DO NOT transfer weight. They are simply an adjustable suspension. Would weight be transferred forward if you added a leaf to the pack? No.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 11
From: Wayyy NoCal, USA
Sooooo..... Physics vs opinion? The age old debate. For what it's worth, Kajtek's attempt to explain the physics was spot on - at least for a steady state situation. Additional stuff happens during dynamic situations, but that would only complicate things - although it would support what others have said.
But back to the headlights! Assuming you meant the car was traveling at ALMOST the speed of light..... like .9999999c...
The light would still project forward at the speed of light. The person in the car would measure it traveling away from him at c.
Then again, so would a person not in the car but standing stationary on the ground.... They would both measure it at the same speed. Time dilation and length contraction and all that stuff!
One of the first brain stretchers they go through in Theory of Relativity 101.
But back to the headlights! Assuming you meant the car was traveling at ALMOST the speed of light..... like .9999999c...
The light would still project forward at the speed of light. The person in the car would measure it traveling away from him at c.
Then again, so would a person not in the car but standing stationary on the ground.... They would both measure it at the same speed. Time dilation and length contraction and all that stuff!
One of the first brain stretchers they go through in Theory of Relativity 101.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Minneapolis
airbags do not transfer any weight to the front axle. Plain and simple.
If you hook up a gooseneck/5th wheel and your front actually raises, you have bigger problems than rear sag... or maybe a faulty tape measure.
The limit as the pressure in air bags reaches ∞ is a rigid suspension on the rear axle. Use this and test the theory. Put a jack between your rear axle and frame, then separate axle from frame while measuring weight on the front. The weight on the front won't change much.
Airbags can cause a potentially dangerous situation for conventional trailers as they take the springiness out of the rear suspension. Instead of the tongue weight compressing the rear springs a lot and lifting the front a little, there is suddenly a rigid fulcrum to lift the front... bad idea.
Airbags DO NOT transfer weight. They are simply an adjustable suspension. Would weight be transferred forward if you added a leaf to the pack? No.
If you hook up a gooseneck/5th wheel and your front actually raises, you have bigger problems than rear sag... or maybe a faulty tape measure.
The limit as the pressure in air bags reaches ∞ is a rigid suspension on the rear axle. Use this and test the theory. Put a jack between your rear axle and frame, then separate axle from frame while measuring weight on the front. The weight on the front won't change much.
Airbags can cause a potentially dangerous situation for conventional trailers as they take the springiness out of the rear suspension. Instead of the tongue weight compressing the rear springs a lot and lifting the front a little, there is suddenly a rigid fulcrum to lift the front... bad idea.
Airbags DO NOT transfer weight. They are simply an adjustable suspension. Would weight be transferred forward if you added a leaf to the pack? No.
The reason air bags help you to control the vehicle is because the steering geometry works a lot better when the rear of the vehicle is not sagging excessively and that the air bags will help the suspension to continue to work the way it's designed to function. This is at low speed.
If you get out on the highway and drive the vehicle quickly then aerodynamics come into play. If the front is high and the rear low, the force of the air against the vehicle will tend to lift the front more than it would if the vehicle were in the inclination the designers intended.
So I'm agreeing that air bags are good and I would recommend them for leveling a vehicle used for hauling, especially on the highway. I disagree that shifting the center of gravity to the front is a reason why air bags will help.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
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From: CA Bay Area
The tire blows I blame on the fact that darn Hancock had so long lasting thread that they aged before wear out. The crack rim I blame on the time when I tried to limp on single wheel with heavy load and second blow made me running on rims. ... with some sparks
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Nowthen, MN
Nitto Terra Grapplers in 295/70/18 are rated for 4080 lbs.