payload weight
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
Likes: 317
From: Whittier, CA
Think about how a heavy load on the rear of the truck unloads the front axle. Sometimes to the point where you can hardly steer. Now imagine that same load leveled. This is an exaggeration of the effect, but I think it makes it easy to understand.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Law of physics say the 2nd ain't happening by pumping the air bags.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,272
Likes: 208
From: Cincy area
Often, the wheels are rated for less than the tires, just an FYI. I'll assume you have the stock wheels? And how much it will "hold is relative depending on the conditions it will be used under such a load. For example I would load my truck with 3000# for side streets or slow speeds, but I wouldn't take that much at a high speed. Along side of the math, using common sence will get you by. Good luck.
SPONSOR
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
I'm not implying that the bags will transfer a great deal of weight to the front axle. However, some will be. If you take his example to an even further extreme, and say that the bags were able to lift the rear of the truck 5' higher in the air. This would shift a great deal of the weight to the front. If the weight is directly over the rear axle like with a fifth wheel more weight would be transferred than say with a bumper pull. It's the same principle for only leveling the truck but not nearly the exponential rate of weight transfer.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
I'm not implying that the bags will transfer a great deal of weight to the front axle. However, some will be. If you take his example to an even further extreme, and say that the bags were able to lift the rear of the truck 5' higher in the air. This would shift a great deal of the weight to the front. .
I think 5th grade teacher would clear it for you.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
Likes: 317
From: Whittier, CA
Inclination always affects COG. And air bags change the inclination.
WRT this truck topic, the change will be very minor. Insignificant I would say. But it does change.
Think of it this way. Lets say the load sitting in the center your truck bed is 100 feet tall. Lets also say that your truck is sagging in the rear, therefore this load is leaning toward the rear. I think even a fifth grader would see that the load will be heavier on the rear axle. Now lets lift the rear axle so that the truck is level, and the load is exactly vertical. Now the load will be equal on each axle, if we ignore the fact that we know the front of the truck weighs more. Now lets lift the rear of the truck even more, so that the 100' load is leaning forward. Now we have shifted more of the load toward the front axle.
It usually helps to understand if we grossly exaggerate the parameters, as I have done here. But the affect is the same.
Thread Starter
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Trailering
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
This guy just don't get it
He's either an idiot or has nothing better to do than argue. It's all common sense, weight (& ****) rolls downhill
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
Likes: 317
From: Whittier, CA
You're a new guy here, and I don't appreciate you calling my friend names. Please don't do that.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
These laws of physics may be new to you. But laws are laws.
Inclination always affects COG. And air bags change the inclination.
WRT this truck topic, the change will be very minor. Insignificant I would say. But it does change.
Think of it this way. Lets say the load sitting in the center your truck bed is 100 feet tall. Lets also say that your truck is sagging in the rear, therefore this load is leaning toward the rear. I think even a fifth grader would see that the load will be heavier on the rear axle. Now lets lift the rear axle so that the truck is level, and the load is exactly vertical. Now the load will be equal on each axle, if we ignore the fact that we know the front of the truck weighs more. Now lets lift the rear of the truck even more, so that the 100' load is leaning forward. Now we have shifted more of the load toward the front axle.
It usually helps to understand if we grossly exaggerate the parameters, as I have done here. But the affect is the same.
Inclination always affects COG. And air bags change the inclination.
WRT this truck topic, the change will be very minor. Insignificant I would say. But it does change.
Think of it this way. Lets say the load sitting in the center your truck bed is 100 feet tall. Lets also say that your truck is sagging in the rear, therefore this load is leaning toward the rear. I think even a fifth grader would see that the load will be heavier on the rear axle. Now lets lift the rear axle so that the truck is level, and the load is exactly vertical. Now the load will be equal on each axle, if we ignore the fact that we know the front of the truck weighs more. Now lets lift the rear of the truck even more, so that the 100' load is leaning forward. Now we have shifted more of the load toward the front axle.
It usually helps to understand if we grossly exaggerate the parameters, as I have done here. But the affect is the same.
BUT the original sentence says that by lifting the rear you are TRANSFERRING the weight to front axle and that ain't happening.
I will not even dig into the fact that moving center of gravity by fraction of inch is much more BS than any help in vehicle handling.
SPONSOR
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
When the rear of the truck is loaded down to the point that you are almost on the bumpstops, the front of the truck is also lifted some.
The motion of the front lifting is not because the front has become lighter but that the weight at the rear of the truck is counteracting the load on the front. This is essentially removing some load on the front axle. The component of that weight is now also pushing on the rear axle. By lifting/leveling the truck the front now has it's original weight on it. The weight that transferred to the back while the rear squatted is once again transferred back to the front axle.
The motion of the front lifting is not because the front has become lighter but that the weight at the rear of the truck is counteracting the load on the front. This is essentially removing some load on the front axle. The component of that weight is now also pushing on the rear axle. By lifting/leveling the truck the front now has it's original weight on it. The weight that transferred to the back while the rear squatted is once again transferred back to the front axle.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Don't you just love the Internet for hair splitting dispute ? 
Regardless the physics if lifting the rear will move the center of gravity a fraction of the inch to the front, or to the rear (!) - it will never make real life effect on the front axle control. So making a sale pitch out of that is targeting lack of customers education.
Pretty low in my books.
Regardless the physics if lifting the rear will move the center of gravity a fraction of the inch to the front, or to the rear (!) - it will never make real life effect on the front axle control. So making a sale pitch out of that is targeting lack of customers education.
Pretty low in my books.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 17,398
Likes: 317
From: Whittier, CA
I think we all agreed the weight change on the front axle would be minimal. However, it might be critical in a hard braking situation. If you need to slam on the brakes, would you rather that happen in a level truck, or a truck that is sagging ***? Suddenly the difference becomes important.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
I think we all agreed the weight change on the front axle would be minimal. However, it might be critical in a hard braking situation. If you need to slam on the brakes, would you rather that happen in a level truck, or a truck that is sagging ***? Suddenly the difference becomes important.
Lifting the center of gravity brings higher risk of rolling over.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
The more even the weight is on all four wheels the better and more safe. I believe the air bags will help with that. Obviously I don't mind internet disputes at all. Just don't understand why you dont get the "simple physics" on this one. It's like a teeter totter when you were little.
I'm heavier than you are then I go down and you go up. Your feet get unweighted. If I push myself up (airbags) then you go down. If your front wheels have the proper weight of the truck on them, you maintain proper controlled for braking and steering. I would say correct me if I'm wrong but I just know you will correct me because I am right.
I'm heavier than you are then I go down and you go up. Your feet get unweighted. If I push myself up (airbags) then you go down. If your front wheels have the proper weight of the truck on them, you maintain proper controlled for braking and steering. I would say correct me if I'm wrong but I just know you will correct me because I am right.