Hi guys, i've been reading (lurking) around in here for the last couple weeks. I have come to atleast 1 conclusion, man you guys are lucky. I,m sure i've never seen so many phenomenal techs/mecanical wizards in one place. I kinda thought i was a half decent wrench, but i think maybe just recently after reading on this forum, i might be a 1/8-1/4 decent wrench at best,(harsh reality) atleast as far as diesel / powerstrokes go. In any event, as a result i'm damn glad to be here. I have a 97 E350 w/7.3 powerstroke w/ 316,000 on the clock . I do not believe it is the original motor , its exceptionally clean (the motor) Maybe a little dusty, but no grease build up anywhere no oil leaks, no blue goo/ silicone or evidence of the motor ever being apart, the wiring harness looks perfect.The rest of the van, body, interior, trans,rear, front suspension could pass for 300k miles, no trailer hitch/ trailer wiring whatsoever.(gettin a little heavy w/ back round info. i think) This is my first diesel. (always knew i was going to be diesel schooled eventually) i bought it about a year and a half ago, w/302,000 miles. Its a work truck, i'm pretty sure it always has been.(flooring/carpet installers van) For the first 8 months this van started, ran and drove perfect. I admit i was really suprised/impressed. (fast too) I know it would easily keep up with my big block dually,even off the line with the a/c on. The van has been in N.E. Pennsylvania area most of it,s life,(atleast 300,000 miles of it) i keep it in central Florida.In the first 3 months i owned it, it made a 1300 mile trip, heavily loaded and towing a 24' boat,(i put a hitch on it)also loaded heavily. I popped 7 nice tires on that trip, 4 on the van,3 on the boat trailer, 1 tire was driver error, like i said they were both loaded heavy.It also made atleast 6, 400 mile trips with zero issues and used less than a 1/2 quart of oil. (more back round for ya.) Anyhoo about 8 months in, about 2 maybe 3 times a week at the most, it started stalling (more of a cut-out ,cut-off like it was shut off at the key/ ignition switch) at idle when warming up or rolling to a stop (driven every day, average of 100/150 miles a week) hot or cold engine temps were not a factor neither was wet or dry weather. (van has never been in cold weather as long as i've owned it) It always re-started easily,as nothing was wrong. Roughly 2/3 months later or 10/11 months in, it started cutting off/ cutting out at speeds in the 40/70 mph range (violently, the first time it happened i thought i got rear ended) intermitantly and unpredictably , again 2 maybe 3 times tops in the course of a day. Sometimes / most of the times it would lite itself up, other times i would put it in netural and start it back up on a roll, again it would start instantly/easily, as if nothing was wrong.(this did not happen every day, but atleast 2 or 3 times a week) I changed the fuel filter (semi major f,in job on a diesel van!) started checking elec. connections, and hit the forum. This went on and got progressively worse for the next 4 or 5 months (i gave it every opportunity to fix itself) It seemed to be a classic cmp issue .(i was sure) The day i finally decided to change the cmp ,was a sunday. (ford dealer was'nt an option) On the way out of the driveway in route to autozone 1/07/12 the van stalled, stumbled,studdered, this time like it ran out of fuel (first time ever) not a cut-out . (over 1/4 tank of fuel) The first and second time i tried to restart it, it almost started but did'nt. I did get some white smoke out of the tail pipe, the two times it almost started but none at all since..
Anytime afer that and to date it has never run or come close to starting on its own . It cranks fine, it will fire on ether, but not run (very small hits of ether, no reaction at all from spraying diesel in it) I disconnected the batteries and got a ride to get the cmp at autozone, well over a half hour trip. (before i learned about pulling the 30 amp cpu/idm fuse) I installed the new (grey) autozone cmp, got no results ,nothing changed.(it had the fat black OEM type cmp in it) I pulled the fuel filter, the filter housing was only about 1/4 full, seemed like there should have been more fuel in it.With the filter out, housing open i cranked the motor for 20 seconds on 4 or 5 different occasions within an hour. If anything the fuel level in the housing dropped. With a good fuel pump i would have expected the open housing to overflow or see the fuel level raise significantly, it did'nt. I called it a bad fuel pump.(the mechanical 2 stage in the valley) I put a new fuel pump in, cleaned the filter housing and the fpr screen , i took the check valve assembly out of the filter housing stand pipe.(about now i'm wishing i would have taken the IPR apart,cleaned and checked it) I dont know the pressures yet,( UPDATE, I'M GETTING 11LBS OF FUEL PRESSURE AT THE FPR SCHRADER) but i know i'm getting fuel to the filter housing and high pressure fuel to the fuel fitting on the rear drivers side head. I have not had a scan tool on it yet.(my code reader does'nt do diesel,harbor freight piece) I have'nt done any pinout yet.(have DVOM, but no pinout charts/diagrams) At this point it's all back together, other than having low and high pressure fuel, nothing has changed.No white smoke at the tail pipe. I have changed the oil,(naturally after the fuel pump change) and checked the HPOP oil resovior level many times,even in the begining,i have never found it low, not even a little) I have the ICP unpluged (it's not wet) The van does'nt have a tach. I have the wait to start light (wts) functioning normally, the GPR clicks on and has 12v at both big lugs w/ko. (key on) Sometimes the GPR chatters a little at the end of it's cycle (turning off). It seems to me , fuel is not getting past the injectors and i may be in IDM/IPR territory now. (keep in mind, before and during the intermittent would be cmp issues this van ran really good, if not perfect. i thought nothing of@ going light to light w/ mustangs,camaros or carreras, if they started it, and usually embarressed them)I have gotten rid of the (grey) autozone CMP, and installed a new (grey) CMP from a Ford dealer.My question for now is, if i somehow manage to get my hands on a real scantool/scan gauge, would an injector buzz test tell confirm wether or not my IDM was bad. In other words does the scantool command the IDM to buzz the injectors? or does it bypass the IDM .(i can't imagine the scantool producing the 110v to fire an injector) I don't know what do you guys think ??

 

Hey, welcome aboard!

So after you replaced the fuel pump does the fuel level in the fuel bowl rise when you crank the engine? If it doesn't, you have a fuel issue still. Another test is to have someone crank the engine while you check the fuel pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel pressure regulator on the side of the fuel bowl. Do the E series have dual tanks or just 1? if it has duals, does it do the same thing on both tanks?

As far as the IDM goes, yes the buzz test has the IDM sending the signals to the injectors to buzz so that is a decent test of the IDM, but is not always conclusive. A couple other easy things to try would be to swap the IDM relay with another relay (horn relay) in the under hood fuse box. Also check the IDM diode with your DVOM and make sure you get continuity through it in one direction. From what I have heard the IDM's in the vans aren't easy to get to or I would suggest you unbolt it and give it a shake to listen for water inside.

The way you describe it, with smoke out the tailpipe at first now not at all, I am inclined to believe you have a fuel delivery issue and not an injector/IDM issue, but that's just a gut feeling at this point.

Fuel level in the bowl first, then fuel pressure, IDM relay/diode, etc.

 

I would get a good scanner and see if you are getting the 500 psi HPOP pressure you need to start...It could be a toasted injector o-ring .....It could also be the IDM too........I have had an IDM fry on me without setting a code.....IDM's in the Vans ( at least on mine ) are behind the Coolant Degas bottle which has to be removed ( 2 10mm bolts) along with the battery , in order to Re & Re . I leave it connected just suck out the coolant.....

 

Yes, w/ the new fuel pump I am getting fuel to the filter housing.

I just put a fuel pressure gauge on the FPR schrader,I'm getting 11lbs of f/p cranking.

I disconnected the hard fuel line to the drivers side fuel rail ( driver's side rear of cylinder head) I'm getting fuel there also.

My van has a single fuel tank.

I did switch the relays around. I also checked, re-checked and re-re-checked the fuses in both fuse boxes.

As far as swapping my IDM w/ a known good one, I don't have access to one. (I don't know a single diesel guy down here. I'm sure they're here, but I don't know any)

I am trying to get my hands on a decent scantool,it is proving to be extremely difficult. The parts stores as far as i know don't rent anything better than a code reader.
I own a cen-tech can obd2/eobd #94217 ( harbor freight garbage, I feel dirty every time I go near that store) I couldn't get it to link up. I didn't think it worked on diesel, but according to a couple posts I've. read here, it's supposed to. I've never been impressed by it,maybe I just don't know how to use it. Either way it's only a code reader
I rented an ACTRON CP9176L from autozone, also only a code reader/scanner, (best I could get, from A/ZONE) It seems to link up,results with it are PASS, no codes found.But then, the most I could do is 'crank' the motor. (I'm guessing these code readers are near useless without the motor running,you get what you pay for?)(as soon as this truck is up and earning again I am definitely going to get atleast AUTOENGINUITY.) (I fkn hate hindsight)

Whereabouts is the IDM diode. (I so should have a service manual for this truck, but like a lot of other guys, finances are deep in the red and I'm out of my element. )

About removing the IDM, I'm pretty sure I read in here that the power to it must be disconnected. Is pulling the #17 IDM fuse or do both batteries need to be completely disconnected. (don't want to make any $544.00 stupid mistakes here) (fkit I'm disconnecting both batteries completely.) The second battery on these pigs,is under the truck on the passenger side frame rail,* I fantasize about castrating the engineer responsible for that!
**is that wrong ?? *** that's wrong isn't it?? (I promised myself I wouldn't whine)

As for the white smoke out of the tailpipe (which i believe to be raw / unburnt fuel )
I saw that only twice, the first and second time I tried to start the van immediately after installing the first A/ZONE CMP. I haven't seen any smoke since then, none after the fuel pump install. I've tried to start it 40/50 times I guess since the last time I saw any smoke.

thanks again DIY. Tuck

 

Alright, well you have fuel then, that's step one! lol
The readers from Autozone will not work on these trucks, they will say "pass" but if the truck is running, it will stumble or stall when you tell the reader to read the codes.

The IDM diode would be in the under hood relay box. it looks like one of the big Maxi fuses, but I think it is black and has an arrow on the top of it. Just make sure you have continuity through it.

As far as the power goes for the IDM, I don't think that's a big concern. Maybe it is with the PCM, but with the IDM just make sure the key is in the off position and unhook the wiring connector (there is a bolt in the center of it that holds it on the IDM).

So you have fuel, I would check the IDM and such, but the next step if you don't kind anything conclusive there is to check whether you have HPO (High Pressure Oil) since that is what drives the injectors. Have you tried cranking it with the ICP unplugged? It is a sensor on the front of the driver side head with a two wire connector on it. Unplug it and try giving it a crank. With that sensor unplugged the PCM should set the IPR to a default level and give you enough HPO to start the engine. Also look in the plug for the ICP and see if there is oil inside the sensor. If there is, it is bad and needs to be replaced. Another easy (well as easy as anything is on an E-series) thing to check is to make sure that the tin nut on the back of the IPR is tight. The IPR is the spool valve that the PCM uses to regulate the HPO pressure. There is a little tin nut on the back of it that holds the solenoid on and it has been known to work its way loose. Don't crank on it hard since it is just a flimsy little tin nut, but it needs to be snug.

Here are a couple pictures for reference.





Where are you located? Maybe someone on here is close by.

And by the way, I don't think that kind of loathing for automotive engineering idiocy is wrong in the least! I have wanted on more than one occasion to give one of them a good beating as well.

 

Welcome to FTE.

 

Holy cow! I'm not even going to try to get into that wall of text.

 

Lightweight, lol....

 

[QUOTE=BuckHammer;11664063]Holycow! I'm not even going to try to get into that wall of text.[/QUOTE

Hi Buck, Yea I thought I was going to hear about the wall of text. I didn't want to leave anything out (mission accomplished? ) I'm no typest either, that took every bit of 6-7 hours (excruciating)
Tuck

 

Hi Dually, thanks for the welcome.


nice dually
Tuck

 

Hi Nate, I didn't think code readers I have would help.
I pulled the IDM,didn't hear any water. My IDM has a in the back (drain type not elec connection) I took it out, no water. (it looked pristine in there) I glued the plug back in.

I have a diode in the u/hood relay box, it is black, but is the size of the reg fuses (has the arrows) The owners manual has it listed as the PCM diode I got 488 ohm's 1 way, the other way I got a 1 . I'm not sure I would call that continuity. I'm not real familiar w/diodes.

If were to check the HPOP w/a wet gauge,which port would I use . The HPOP sender/sensor seems obvious, but I have to ask.

The ICP has been (still is) unplugged since of the f/p install. I learned. that reading in here It was dry.

The IPR nut was tight. I'm still regretting not taking the IPR out, checking and cleaning it, while filter housing & f/p was out. I am considering pulling it back apart (turbo, fuel pump and filter housing) to do that. (must be looking for someone to talk me out of that)
When I originally did the re- assembly of the f/p job (before my 1st post) I had forgotten to to plug the IPR back in. I read in here somewhere, the IPR unplugged would surely cause a no start / no run situation. (I got excited and figured I had this thing licked, I hate when that happens.) The IPR has been plugged in since before 1st post.

Location = Brooksville Fla. 34601. (aka.brownstain) (can't wait to get the f. out of here,south, north, east. anywhere but here. ) (that should go a long way with any locals lending a hand. couldn't help it. lol.

Don't think it's an issue, but my EBPV has no nut or spacer on it.
I think your sig says you have a EBPV delete, what are the benefits?
Also read that some guys have a momentary switch on the EBPV using it as an exhaust brake.

I do feel like I'm whizzing in the wind, without a suitable scantool, but still not an option as of yet. (gonna keep trying )

Thanks Nate. Tuck.

 

I was going try to post a pic in the the last post, (not that I've ever accomplished posting a pic) I went looking for a go advanced button, couldn't find one . Where would I look for instructions on adding a pic to a post.

Tuck

 

Hey Tuck,

Yeah, my mistake on the diode, it is for the PCM not the IDM. The way you tested it I think it is fine.

IDM sounds okay, or at least it didn't fail due to water.

The next step is going to be getting a HPO reading. You can get that by either plugging in the ICP and scanning it with an advanced scanner, or by building a mechanical wet gauge. You basically just need a wet gauge that will handle 3500 PSI at least (go 5000 PSI if you want to be safe). There are several hex head plugs in the HPO galleries in the head. Just remove one of them and get a hose that will thread into the hole, then adapt it to your gauge. (I'm looking for the link and a picture but I can't seem to find it).

When you crank it for a while does the oil pressure gauge go up eventually?

Edit:

Here is the info on the gauge I was looking for:

 

I would never make the EBPV a brake ..way too McGiver for me...plus I enjoy doing brakes every 2-3 years , gives me something to do .... Last time I removed the Turbo for pump service I installed spare rebuilt with EPV Delete already done and ready to install ... I guess it spools up a little faster ...The tight spaces for me , so I bought my Scanner before I attempted work on my Van...I had a few laptops so NBFD ....anyway I remove Turbo and filterbowl to access the IPR ..so after all that I installed a new one...now I have 3 spares ....Vans require a different skill set .....I have had a IDM fry in the heat but water intrusion is the main destructive vibe ....As stated , you need to find out the HPOP pressure while cranking ...when my o-ring blew it would only get 250-300 psi while cranking so I knew it was o-ring time and I had to take everything apart....which I did

 

Hi Blageurt, Thank you for the quick initial reply also (i hope you don't think I was being ignorant )
I don't know what it is, I have a ghost in my machine or something.I've tried 4 or 5 times to respond to your initial reply, to no avail. (P.S. MY COMPUTER /IPHONE /TYPING SKILLS ARE PRESCHOOL ON GOOD DAYS, DON'T MEAN TO YELL BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE LOWER CASE TEXT BOLD) (PROBABLY NEVER WILL) (here goes attempt #6)
This is kind of wild, actually after reading / lurking in here for 3 or 4 weeks, before any postings . I tried to contact you first . A van guy thing I guess.,not that van guys would know more about Powerstrokes. (we're severely out numbered) But your being a van guy
you might know ways around some of the contortion acts necessary to work these van motors. (I'm whining ain't I ) (or atleast be genuinely sympathetic LOL.) I admit working on the turbo and maybe dropping the trans is a peice of cake, but that's where it ends. (cruel and unusual punishment.) I think Powerstroke van's are making me sensitive.
Enough chitchat I guess, yup,this is already looking like another text wall.

My trying to get my hands on a decent scantool hasn't come close to happening. (I can't affoood none my mom's on welllllfare.(E. Murphy line) I assure you, before long I will get AutoEnginuity. but not today, and tomorrow ain't lookin much better. I do know my HPOP
oil reservoir has never been low,as long as I've been working on this would be CMP/ fuel pump problem, which is the first time I ever touched a Powerstroke with a wrench. other than an oil change .

Would a toasted injector o-ring/s cause a full on no start /no run situation. I am thinking (maybe I shouldn't be) that I would have seen considerable /abnormal oil consumption. I had to ask. I'm actually a little at the lack of oil consumption. I thought /could swear I remember hearing diesel being more oil thirsty than gas engines, because am not seeing that with this Powerstroke, not at all.

My IDM is in the same place yours. I did pull the IDM to do the water shake test. I found a a plug in the back of my IDM. I pulled the plug out. I found no evidence of water, and for what its worth it looked pristine in there also did a nose test, no burnt elect smell either.

As stated in a previous post (the other wall of text post I think,but just in case I didn't, here it comes again) As much as I hate to use ether on any engine
I have always put gas in a spray bottle, instead of using ether
with gasoline engines that is. (I am starting to hear little voices saying something like OK! let's cut to the chase mfr!

I actually tried spraying diesel into the turbo and got no reaction whatsoever. (was kind of puzzled as to why that wouldn't work, other than diesel being too heavy to go the distance. I had a weak moment, and gave the turbo a short hit of ether. it fired, but wouldn't try to run. THE END.


you might kno the ways around someyou mi