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Old Apr 7, 2012 | 07:26 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by The Confederate
Ok. I'm going to set some things straight here. EFI vs. Carb: carbureted vehicles had achieved over 50 mpg's back in the 1950s. Gas prices were what? A quarter a gallon? Who cared right? In the 60s and 70s, the era of the muscle car, more gas=more power, so it was all but forgotten.(Until the crisis in the 70s, when a big oil company purchased the patent for the carburetor.) Why don't we use it now? It fails the government's strict EPA emissions regulations. Which bring us to fuel injection: we need it to achieve the emission regulations. Computers tell our engines how to burn the air/fuel mix, not the laws of nature. Which can be used to our advantage, given you know how to tune these computers. It's not entirely the fuel delivery system itself, it's whether or not it's properly tuned to the application.
I'm intrigued. What were three cars that got 50mpg in the 50's? I'd like to find one so I can swap the carburetor onto my Bronco and get 50mpg.

Patents are enforceable for 20 years. If a carburetor manufactured in the '50's was capable of achieving 50mpg the patent would be public by the time the gas crunch hit in the late 70's. From whom did an oil company buy the patent and how would they have enforced it? And which oil company was it?

None of the carburetors manufactured today by Holley, Edelbrock, Weber, QuickFuel, etc. meet the government's strict EPA requirements yet thousands are sold each year. Why aren't they producing a version of this miracle 50mpg carburetor whose patent is now expired? With gas at $4 a gallon and rising there's got to be a market for it.

The laws of nature dictate there is only so much energy stored in a gallon of gas. A computer completes millions of calculations per second based on barometric pressure, air temperature, rpm, engine load/vacuum, throttle position, engine temperature, vehicle speed, air/fuel ratio, the amount of air the engine is actually consuming, etc. to control the volume of fuel delivered and the optimum spark timing to maximize energy extracted from a gallon of gas. How does a passive device like a carburetor - with throttle position and engine vacuum as the only controlling factors - better accommodate the laws of nature to extract more energy from a gallon of fuel?

Modern fuel injected vehicles use the same methods of reducing emissions (air injection and catalytic converters) as carbureted vehicles did. They also get better mileage, make more power, and run the same regardless of weather or altitude. Beyond emissions, car companies are also bound by government fuel economy standards. If a simple, 60 year old carb design could get 50mpg they could find a way to clean up the emissions. My 300 with an Edelbrock carb passes tailpipe tests. No one does because carbs are inherently limited and a compromise at best.

Not that they don't have their place. I'd like to know more about those 50mpg carbureted vehicles from the 50's so I can retrofit my truck and start getting some of that sweet, sweet mileage.
 
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Old Apr 7, 2012 | 08:48 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by BaronVonAutomatc
I'm intrigued. What were three cars that got 50mpg in the 50's? I'd like to find one so I can swap the carburetor onto my Bronco and get 50mpg.

Patents are enforceable for 20 years. If a carburetor manufactured in the '50's was capable of achieving 50mpg the patent would be public by the time the gas crunch hit in the late 70's. From whom did an oil company buy the patent and how would they have enforced it? And which oil company was it?

None of the carburetors manufactured today by Holley, Edelbrock, Weber, QuickFuel, etc. meet the government's strict EPA requirements yet thousands are sold each year. Why aren't they producing a version of this miracle 50mpg carburetor whose patent is now expired? With gas at $4 a gallon and rising there's got to be a market for it.

The laws of nature dictate there is only so much energy stored in a gallon of gas. A computer completes millions of calculations per second based on barometric pressure, air temperature, rpm, engine load/vacuum, throttle position, engine temperature, vehicle speed, air/fuel ratio, the amount of air the engine is actually consuming, etc. to control the volume of fuel delivered and the optimum spark timing to maximize energy extracted from a gallon of gas. How does a passive device like a carburetor - with throttle position and engine vacuum as the only controlling factors - better accommodate the laws of nature to extract more energy from a gallon of fuel?

Modern fuel injected vehicles use the same methods of reducing emissions (air injection and catalytic converters) as carbureted vehicles did. They also get better mileage, make more power, and run the same regardless of weather or altitude. Beyond emissions, car companies are also bound by government fuel economy standards. If a simple, 60 year old carb design could get 50mpg they could find a way to clean up the emissions. My 300 with an Edelbrock carb passes tailpipe tests. No one does because carbs are inherently limited and a compromise at best.

Not that they don't have their place. I'd like to know more about those 50mpg carbureted vehicles from the 50's so I can retrofit my truck and start getting some of that sweet, sweet mileage.
I agree, that story has also been around for the past 50 years. It was BS then and it's BS now. Any F series Ford that had that carb (if it existed)on it wouldn't need any kind of emisssions equipment to clean up the tail pipe.
 
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Old Apr 7, 2012 | 09:00 AM
  #33  
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In WW2 the Carb. being talked about was put into limited production and installed on American Tanks in the desert war againts Rommel,because of a shortage of gas and the long miles in the desert without being able to refuel. The carbs were sent over and installed on all tanks under guard! Then when the main battles were over the carbs were replaced with the old carb,again under guard. WW2 tankers for years have talked about a wounder carb that doubled the mileage of there tanks. Not too long ago one of these wounder carbs showed up on e-bay and was bought by a guy rebuilding an old tank.
 
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Old Apr 7, 2012 | 09:02 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by RFAgrasshopper
I pointed out to 82 F150 that it was cheaper to buy the new Motor Sport rods at $90.00 for a set of eight than to have his old ones rebuilt. That's how all this got started in the first place.
If the 289 I am going to be building up( for my '27 T coupe drag car) needs a new crank and or rods. I'll turn it into a 302 and use the Motor Sport rods and be very happy with them.
Nope, this whole thing got started when someone pointed out a lower cost alternative to what you suggested and you disputed it. And that's all I'm going to say about it.
 
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Old Apr 8, 2012 | 03:33 PM
  #35  
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I read an article on the interweb about a highschool drop out from El Paso, Tx. He was working as a fuel stop mechanic when he figured he's mower could run several more hours just on gasoline vapors and after many hit and runs he built a special carb and fuel tank that could produce vapors. He was able to get 200 mpg on 60's model ford car. Later after months of media, he disappeared, along with the "special setup"
 
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Old Apr 8, 2012 | 03:56 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by 82 F150
I read an article on the interweb about a highschool drop out from El Paso, Tx. He was working as a fuel stop mechanic when he figured he's mower could run several more hours just on gasoline vapors and after many hit and runs he built a special carb and fuel tank that could produce vapors. He was able to get 200 mpg on 60's model ford car. Later after months of media, he disappeared, along with the "special setup"
Yet another "urban myth"
 
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Old Apr 8, 2012 | 05:09 PM
  #37  
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Well the tank carb story is true as I have talked to a tanker who watched them put the carb on his tank. Then drove his tank in battle getting over twice the range as before. Then he watched as the carb on his and all the other tanks was removed and replaced with the old carbs. He also watched the special carbs loaded back up on airplanes and flown back to the states.
 
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Old Apr 8, 2012 | 05:17 PM
  #38  
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Baddad : Maybe you should read the post in order! You will see I told him it was cheaper to buy the new Motor sport rods than have the old ones rebuilt. That's when you stepped in and said that the new blocks do not need to be rebuilt and that you can drive out the old rod bolts by placing them between two pieces of wood!
 
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Old Apr 8, 2012 | 05:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by RFAgrasshopper
Baddad : Maybe you should read the post in order! You will see I told him it was cheaper to buy the new Motor sport rods than have the old ones rebuilt. That's when you stepped in and said that the new blocks do not need to be rebuilt and that you can drive out the old rod bolts by placing them between two pieces of wood!
 
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