Thanks a lot for your advice. I have been thinking about buying a 2001 302 from a ford explorer/ mercury mountaineer for the gt40 heads and for the fact that they are fuel injected. Just wonder if those computers have the OBD2 connection, because I have a cheap scaner from harbor freight. I plan on doing this swap/ work in the next two years.

 

I can save you a lot of money here. Most Explorer blocks don't need a reboring. Just hone em and put the stock pistons and rods back in(new rings and bearings). If you want piece of mind, change the rod bolts to ARP's, no need to rebuild the rods, just chuck em in a vise between two wood blocks and drive the old bolts out(one at a time) and pop the new bolts back in )per ARP's instructions) The stock rods (F2TE's and C8OE's) with new bolts are good to 7500 rpms.

 

Well having taken auto machine classes and having rebuilt rods,I can say that driving the rod bolts out and driving new ones back in will distort the big end. Not re-boring a block will depend on the mileage on the engine and how well it was maintained by the owners. Having rebuilt a good number of engines over the years both Ford and brand C I can tell you that it all depends on how it was used and maintained. The new Roller blocks seam to need boring less than some of the older blocks but you still need to have the bore checked with a bore gauge to make sure the taper isn't to much. If you try to re-ring a block with too much taper you'll break the new rings in no time.

 

I've done several roller 302 block like this and all turned out just fine. As did the rods. I've changed rod bolts in an assembled reman roller 302 (from City Motor Supply, Dallas TX) and ran the motor with daily 6500 rpm floggings for a year and a half. Then replaced the top end with Canfield heads and a Vic Jr, then subjected it to daily 7500 rpm floggings for two months. In the end, it cracked the #4 cylinder wall, the rotating assembly held up fine. I sold the rods and pistons to someone else and reused the crank in another build. This was a $350 reman shortblock. I wouldn't hesitate to do another. Ford 302 rods are good (cept the F1TE rods) just need better rod bolts to survive most applications. If there's no ridge in the top of the bore, hone it and rering it, it'll do just fine.

 

Well Baddad457, I just got off the phone with ARP's Tec guy and that is not how they tell people to do it and they even tell people that the rods will have to be rebuilt when you change out the rod bolts. The idea here is to give good advice to guys starting off and have them do it the right way so there engine last a long time and they learn good rebuilding skills. Yes you say your engine lasted. I think that was more luck then anything that a rod bolt didn't break! Rod bolts need to be pressed in and out on a Hyd. press,not beating them in and out with a hammer!

 

I could care less what ARP said. I did it and it worked. And it was no fluke. You claim to be a machinist, so it's obvious where your bread is buttered. (if what you claim is true, just your saying that you called ARP to get their tech guy's advice, leads me to believe you're not) And you're completely wrong in ASSuming that I "hammered the bolts in" Nothing could be further from the truth. If the bolts are straight and they're installed straight, nothing happens to the big end of the rod. There's more than one way to build an engine. Not every engine needs to be assembled in a laboratory clean environment, nor does every engine need to be meticulously assembled as one would in building a Nascar motor. I've put together many engines over the past thirty years, not one has failed because of my assembly techniques. Truthfully I've had only a couple that did develop problems, but neither was a result of assembly techniques. One was a problem with the block. The other was the one I posted above. The ones that ran fine and had long lives afterwards were not due to luck. You build your engines your way, I'll do mine my way. But don't tell me I'm doing something wrong just because you think it is, that is YOUR opinion, and yours alone. I don't tell you you're doing something wrong, I've only offered a lower cost alternative to doing a simple operation.

 

I never claimed to be a Machinist!!Read the post I said I have taken the auto machine classes and have rebuilt rods. I took class and have built many engines over the years but am not a machinist by trade!! I called ARP to check before I called you on your story!! You stated your were doing it per ARPs instructions! They have no such instructions,so I called you on this as being untrue! The point of a Forum like this is to pass on good advise, your not passing on good advise your passing on how not to build an engine!
Will an engine live that's put together with a lot of dirt and not cleaned live. Yes, but when you tare it down you'll find what it looks like inside isn't pretty. I have torn down engines that were put together in dirty assembly areas and it shows on all bearings and the walls of the cylinders. The idea of building an engine as clean as you can goes back into the 1920's,it's nothing new. Modern oil filters and modern engine oil have probably saved your ***. You keep building engines your way and I'll keep building them the right way!

 

I installed the bolts per ARP's instructions. The fact that they recommend having the rods reconditioned has nothing whatsoever to do with how the bolts are installed in the rods, in the instructions that come with the bolts.. If you had read the instructions, you would know this. And I assume you would, if as you claim, you've rebuilt rods and installed new bolts in said rods. I've taken apart dozens of engines and in none of them can you honestly and 100% verify that the dirt you encounter on or in the parts came from the assembly process. Do I assemble an engine in a "clean room" ? No. Do I intentionally allow dirt into the bearings and parts while I'm assembling an engine ? No. So please stop making ASSumptions here. You have no idea of what you're talking about.

 

So how bout those gas prices, eh?

 

Good news there is the high prices are fueling the oil booms in the Bakken Shale(N. Dakota) and the Eagle-Ford Shale in south Texas. Sorry your thread went off track, but some people refuse to admit that there's mor'n one way to skin a cat (and install rod bolts) If you want to be meticulus in engine assembly, by all means go ahead, it's your money. I was simply pointing out a lower cost alternative that achieves the same end result. Some of us don't have the time or money to build a $5000+ motor for a weekend warrior truck.

 

Ok. I'm going to set some things straight here. EFI vs. Carb: carbureted vehicles had achieved over 50 mpg's back in the 1950s. Gas prices were what? A quarter a gallon? Who cared right? In the 60s and 70s, the era of the muscle car, more gas=more power, so it was all but forgotten.(Until the crisis in the 70s, when a big oil company purchased the patent for the carburetor.) Why don't we use it now? It fails the government's strict EPA emissions regulations. Which bring us to fuel injection: we need it to achieve the emission regulations. Computers tell our engines how to burn the air/fuel mix, not the laws of nature. Which can be used to our advantage, given you know how to tune these computers. It's not entirely the fuel delivery system itself, it's whether or not it's properly tuned to the application.
The Rod Battle (lol): First off, the engineers of Ford, Chevy, Mopar, ect designed everything to last within certain limits in a certain application. So unless you are trying to build a racecar engine pushing close to 10,000 RPMs, changing rod bolts is basicly pointless. Let's say you do change them. You can install them with a hammer like baddad457 said, but don't beat them like they owe you money The final tightening of the nuts to the proper torque spec will be the press fit RFAgrasshopper mentioned. I would just re-torque them at around the first 3000 miles (or first oil change after the project is completed) to make sure they didn't loosen up. The crankshaft (big) end of the rods are precision machined while bolted together at the installed torque spec. Sometimes the hole is machined in a solid rod and the rod is then "broken" across the big end. Changing rod bolts WILL alter how the rod and cap align and the big end will need to be re-honed to spec. Can you ignore this? Possibly. It may not affect anything in one hand and be instant catastrophic failure in the other. Or it may be a sleeper in it may be the death sentence the first time the driver pushes 6000-8000 RPMs trying to pass a truck or something, or be the difference in an engine lasting 100,000 miles vs 200,000 miles. Personally, I'd just buy new, stronger rods that would be machined with superior hardware. It's probably cheaper than buying bolts and re-honing all the big ends and comes with the peace of mind and no what-ifs. Hope this helps!!!!

 

Where did I ever mention "beating the bolts in with a hammer" ? I installed them per ARP's instructions, sans the rod reconditioning. In doing this, you do not "beat them in with a hammer" You insert the rod bolt as far as possible, then tap the bolt lightly with a small hammer, to the point where the rod nut can be started, then you draw the bolt all the way in using the nut on the bolt. Then you torque them to spec, then unscrew the nut. This may have been done twice as I recall, it's been awhile since I did the last set. And yes, the big end may be distorted slightly, but then again, when doing an overhaul and replacing the bearings on a crank, the crank journal's are not always perfectly round either. And this is a common practice in the big diesels that run for hundreds of thousands of miles afterwards. If you're building a full on race motor, by all means, rebuild the rods along with all the meticulus work involved in building a race motor. But for a street driven weekend warrior, most of that is unnecessary.

 

Now, who's going to go thru all the trouble to jack the engine up to remove the oil pan to recheck the rod bolt torque ?

 

You never said such thing. It was simply a clarification and warning to 82 F150 if and when he installs them. Not to insult his intelligence, but he may not know diddly-squat about engine rebuilding and may whack those bolts like a red-headed step-child instead of love-tapping them into position. I think you're right on the torque twice thing, I've always recommended an extra time after a few heat cycles to be sure the metal's expansion and contraction haven't worked them loose.

 

I pointed out to 82 F150 that it was cheaper to buy the new Motor Sport rods at $90.00 for a set of eight than to have his old ones rebuilt. That's how all this got started in the first place.
If the 289 I am going to be building up( for my '27 T coupe drag car) needs a new crank and or rods. I'll turn it into a 302 and use the Motor Sport rods and be very happy with them.