Flex Fuel X ?
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,250
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From: West Virginia
It does have a higher octane rating, but the rub is that you have to inject huge amounts of it because of the lower power potential.
The biggest problem is that we are making ourselves completely dependent on corn, and that we effectively use it for everything now, we are competing with ourselves. Food prices have risen since they started mixing ethanol with gasoline as well.
But thats a whole different issue. Watch the documentary King Corn if you are interested.
The biggest problem is that we are making ourselves completely dependent on corn, and that we effectively use it for everything now, we are competing with ourselves. Food prices have risen since they started mixing ethanol with gasoline as well.
But thats a whole different issue. Watch the documentary King Corn if you are interested.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
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From: Central Coast of CA
LOL, sure..."negative spin"....THAT's what's holding us back.
Stewart
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Yup, the very few car guys that keep trying E85 are starting to use double injectors like they would for alcohol just to get enough fuel in the cylinder to keep the motor together on corn crap. There is NO gain from ethanol no matter how you look at it!
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: SE Pennsyltucky
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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...who would of thought! I will agree that making a vehicle that was not originally designed to run E85 is not worthwhile, however, if E85 is cheaper than gas and the price is past the break even point, there is nothing wrong with running E85. You'll even get a bit more power out of it.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 11
From: West Virginia
You don't get more power, you get less. Unless you tune specifically for E85 and install larger injectors and oftentimes a larger diameter fuel line and larger fuel pump, you are not likely to get more power switching to E85. Each gallon of E85 has 20% or so less power than a gallon of gasoline. So a tune that simply maintained stock gasoline power levels would have to inject almost a 25% more fuel. A tune that would take advantage of ethanol's detonation resistance to make more power would be even more. There are no stock fuel systems that I'm aware of that can provide that kind of increase. And moreover, as has already been covered, your mpg will decrease a similar amount. So if you inject the same amount of E85 as you did gasoline on a 100hp engine that got 25 mpg, you would have an 80 hp engine that gets 20 mpg. If you step up your fuel system to get you back to the original 100 hp, you would be down to somewhere around 16 mpg.
This is all not to mention the off topic fact that E85 doesn't reduce our dependency on fossil fuels since each gallon of E85 has burned over a gallon of equivalent fossil fuel by the time it is harvested, refined, and trucked to the distribution site.
This is all not to mention the off topic fact that E85 doesn't reduce our dependency on fossil fuels since each gallon of E85 has burned over a gallon of equivalent fossil fuel by the time it is harvested, refined, and trucked to the distribution site.
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Brett Foote
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 277
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From: Midwest
It will never be cost efficient to convert a non-flex-fuel vehicle to flex-fuel. The small % savings on fuel costs you MIGHT see long term would take longer to realize than your vehicle will run.
I am yet to see a study that suggests you actually see a savings in a flex-fuel vehicle. The fuel, depending on where you are, costs around 20-30%less. You get 30-40% less mpg. that math simply does not work well. you may feel good at the pump when it costs you less to fill up, but unless you really like filling up, just does not make sense.
I am yet to see a study that suggests you actually see a savings in a flex-fuel vehicle. The fuel, depending on where you are, costs around 20-30%less. You get 30-40% less mpg. that math simply does not work well. you may feel good at the pump when it costs you less to fill up, but unless you really like filling up, just does not make sense.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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There are no stock fuel systems that I'm aware of that can provide that kind of increase. And moreover, as has already been covered, your mpg will decrease a similar amount. So if you inject the same amount of E85 as you did gasoline on a 100hp engine that got 25 mpg, you would have an 80 hp engine that gets 20 mpg. If you step up your fuel system to get you back to the original 100 hp, you would be down to somewhere around 16 mpg.
The one thing I like about Ethanol is the higher octane rating. The 2009 F-150 with the 5.4 is an example of capitalizing on this through proper tuning. On Ethanol, the F150 is rated at 320hp and 390lb.-ft; on gasoline, the same engine in the same vehicle is rated at 310hp and 365lb.-ft.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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So you are saying that people running ethanol in their E85 capable vehicles are experiencing issues at the same scale that the diesels are undergoing? I did not realize this; please enlighten me.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,250
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From: West Virginia
I think he was saying warranties are great, but things still break, and warranties run out, and what are you gonna do then??
I'll believe your power figures on the F150 when I see the dyno results, till then I'm calling it hype.
I'll believe your power figures on the F150 when I see the dyno results, till then I'm calling it hype.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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If you are implying that Ford was hyping this, they weren't. If they were, you would have heard of it before I posted it.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
All I'm sayin is I have YET to hear any benefit or gain from E85. All I ever hear and see is ruined parts and motors, horrible corn mileage, high grocery prices, and still high gas prices (what happened to lower reliance = lower gas prices?).
The cons outweigh the pros. E85 is useless!
The cons outweigh the pros. E85 is useless!