351c engine or redo 351w?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
351c engine or redo 351w?
Let me know if you come across it again. The Iron version comes with 4 or 4.125" bores, 8.2, 8.7, 9.2 or 9.5" deck height, and 302 or 351C diameter mains. $1970-$2200. They are a combo block, that mean 97% Windsor, 3% Cleveland.
A factory 351W crank won't fit because the mains are too big. A 351C crank should fit but the crank snout is .75" longer and the shoulder behind the timing gear has to be cut down so a 351W gear can be used.
If they come out with an aluminum block for only $300 more, I'd be ordering one tomorrow. Their SBC aluminum blocks cost $3700, so I'd expect more like $4000+ if they released one for Ford.
A factory 351W crank won't fit because the mains are too big. A 351C crank should fit but the crank snout is .75" longer and the shoulder behind the timing gear has to be cut down so a 351W gear can be used.
If they come out with an aluminum block for only $300 more, I'd be ordering one tomorrow. Their SBC aluminum blocks cost $3700, so I'd expect more like $4000+ if they released one for Ford.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: not mass
351c engine or redo 351w?
well if your want to buy a new block why go off half azzed the 460 svo race block and stop playin where can you go wrong with a sleeved aluminum block aluminum heads with 750 cubes
but if you want to be a commoner built a wndsor
if ya wanna have some fun, run an engine that has effectivly banned from NHRA use and go with a clevland i would race next to a moderate 460(iron) now
common i know i do it
a winsor=eh
a clevland = hey lets have a look geez thats nice
but if you want to be a commoner built a wndsor
if ya wanna have some fun, run an engine that has effectivly banned from NHRA use and go with a clevland i would race next to a moderate 460(iron) now
common i know i do it
a winsor=eh
a clevland = hey lets have a look geez thats nice
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
351c engine or redo 351w?
but I don't want to spend 20K just to have people stare.
The nice thing about the Dart block is the easy displacement. You can get an iron 4.17" stroke crank for under $300. Add that to a 4.125" bore block and you're up to 446cu. Now you have enough displacement to use the big, open chamber 351C 4V heads that most people don't want. How many of those will you see?
The nice thing about the Dart block is the easy displacement. You can get an iron 4.17" stroke crank for under $300. Add that to a 4.125" bore block and you're up to 446cu. Now you have enough displacement to use the big, open chamber 351C 4V heads that most people don't want. How many of those will you see?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
351c engine or redo 351w?
They're great for building compression but tough to get any quench benefits because there's too much deck clearance with the 400s.
There's even a chance the open chamber heads flow more than the CC heads, because the valves are less shrouded.
I see them on Ebay all the time. They sell for a lot less than the CC heads.
There's even a chance the open chamber heads flow more than the CC heads, because the valves are less shrouded.
I see them on Ebay all the time. They sell for a lot less than the CC heads.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 887
Likes: 1
From: Jax FL
351c engine or redo 351w?
or its a more even type of flow. kid viscious says his open 4V ran faster than his closed ones. if you take the 62cc closed heads and unshround they come out like 64-66cc heads. i am experimenting with 2.25/1.75 valves in one set of mine. im thinking about taking out the 351 whimper out of my 95 f150 and putting in one of my 408C's. trying to figure out the efi setup.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
351c engine or redo 351w?
I wish I could find a good image of a Boss 351 combustion chamber. I'd like to figure out why it displaces 66cc, 3-4cc more than the 351C. My theory is the casting was made with the valves already unshrouded.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: not mass
351c engine or redo 351w?
if you can get one a clevland not difficult to build as compared to the rest of the 335 series they make parts for clevlands still dish dome and any thing you could want
there are screwy things to the parts a set of SPECIFIC 351c arp rocker studs i was qouted 80 some-odd bucks but you can use 460 studs leaving a little more metal on it
i assume who-is-it was talking 400 because i know of quite a few 351Cs .060 over and a few more
personlly i think the upper end is more on a clevland
but if you ust want a little bit more power keep the wheezer
same ol same ol cam intake carb exaust ignition(remember to open the plug gap a little)
there are screwy things to the parts a set of SPECIFIC 351c arp rocker studs i was qouted 80 some-odd bucks but you can use 460 studs leaving a little more metal on it
i assume who-is-it was talking 400 because i know of quite a few 351Cs .060 over and a few more
personlly i think the upper end is more on a clevland
but if you ust want a little bit more power keep the wheezer
same ol same ol cam intake carb exaust ignition(remember to open the plug gap a little)
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 887
Likes: 1
From: Jax FL
351c engine or redo 351w?
Originally posted by Brian S
I wish I could find a good image of a Boss 351 combustion chamber. I'd like to figure out why it displaces 66cc, 3-4cc more than the 351C. My theory is the casting was made with the valves already unshrouded.
I wish I could find a good image of a Boss 351 combustion chamber. I'd like to figure out why it displaces 66cc, 3-4cc more than the 351C. My theory is the casting was made with the valves already unshrouded.
I think you are right the boss 302 has 58cc chambers, the aussie 302 had 62 cc's, the early 4V has 62-63 cc's, but the latter ones had 65-66 cc's. It seems like the myth that 351 2v and 351m/400 heads are all the same.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
351c engine or redo 351w?
Even though the Australian government stopped the '72 Falcon Phase 4 before it was released to the public, they managed to build four prototypes. Since all the large port 351C heads were imported from the US anyway, I have another theory that they got their hands on 351 Boss heads, based on the description in this article.
http://www.fouronthefloor.com.au/art...4articles.html
"The engine is still the 351 Ford V8, but it has been modified in several ways. The biggest news is the revision of the cylinder head combustion chambers. The shaping has been changed to give much better breathing, flow and volume around the inlet valves. This has reduced compression slightly, but made the engine more efficient, torquier and spread the torque over a much wider power band than before. It comes in strongly a full 1000 rpm lower than in the Phase Three, which itself was recognised for it's far greater flexibility over the Phase two HO."
http://www.fouronthefloor.com.au/art...4articles.html
"The engine is still the 351 Ford V8, but it has been modified in several ways. The biggest news is the revision of the cylinder head combustion chambers. The shaping has been changed to give much better breathing, flow and volume around the inlet valves. This has reduced compression slightly, but made the engine more efficient, torquier and spread the torque over a much wider power band than before. It comes in strongly a full 1000 rpm lower than in the Phase Three, which itself was recognised for it's far greater flexibility over the Phase two HO."
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 2
From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
351c engine or redo 351w?
Just want to add that the 351 Cleveland came in a four bolt main version and that maybe all of them can be converted to four bolt main setups. All of them I have seen have the bosses cast in them to accept the machining for the extra bolts. Of course you will have to find some four bolt caps and have the block align honed.
I don't think Ford made a four bolt main version of a Cleveland if there wasn't enough power being produced to grenade a two bolt main version. I don't recall any factory 351 Windsor with four bolt setups. Are there any?
One thing else is that the 351 Cleveland has smaller diameter main bearing journals to allow for higher rpms with less friction. A windsor has a stronger crank with the larger diameter main bearing journals and makes a better overall truck engine.
I don't think Ford made a four bolt main version of a Cleveland if there wasn't enough power being produced to grenade a two bolt main version. I don't recall any factory 351 Windsor with four bolt setups. Are there any?
One thing else is that the 351 Cleveland has smaller diameter main bearing journals to allow for higher rpms with less friction. A windsor has a stronger crank with the larger diameter main bearing journals and makes a better overall truck engine.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 887
Likes: 1
From: Jax FL
351c engine or redo 351w?
this has been covered a lot here, all 335 series engines can be tapped for 4 bolt mains. the issues are; the cost on 351M/400 for 4 bolt caps are expensive, 351C caps are not that much cheaper. the webbing on most 335 series blocks are stronger if left to 2 bolt mains.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 2
From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
351c engine or redo 351w?
I don't understand how installing 4 bolt mains will weaken an engine designed for them? Maybe you have heard of this from sources that have improperly built some and had them break. I have personally seen Ford built 351 Clevelands that came in Mustangs that have experienced no problems with the webbing after more than thirty years with four bolt main bearing caps. I am not saying it doesn't happen just that it must be rare.
Are there any books available that explain this weakened webbing issue?
Are there any books available that explain this weakened webbing issue?