02 no start
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02 no start
Hi Guys,
After two other guys attempted I got suckered into working on a 02 escape for a employee of mine. Story I got is it just died one night on the way home (very cold out) The person driving it always runs the tank almost completely empty so I was thinking possibly water in fuel and froze up. This was 2 weeks ago.
I have 50-60 psi at the fuel rail, 45-50 cranking. Volume flow into a catch bucket seemed decent. Pulled the front 3 plugs and have spark while cranking. Haven't checked the back 3 due to well you know
I have a auto enginuity but haven't been able to get good readings on injector pulse yet (low battery), on the charger now.
The other guys were able to run the engine on either but nothing else. I'm thinking possibly the PCM is not driving the injectors but it looks like you have to pull the plenum apart to access the wiring? Escapes are new to me, usually older fords, diesels, and the bad GM word is my usual repair time. Any info is much appreciated!
After two other guys attempted I got suckered into working on a 02 escape for a employee of mine. Story I got is it just died one night on the way home (very cold out) The person driving it always runs the tank almost completely empty so I was thinking possibly water in fuel and froze up. This was 2 weeks ago.
I have 50-60 psi at the fuel rail, 45-50 cranking. Volume flow into a catch bucket seemed decent. Pulled the front 3 plugs and have spark while cranking. Haven't checked the back 3 due to well you know
I have a auto enginuity but haven't been able to get good readings on injector pulse yet (low battery), on the charger now.
The other guys were able to run the engine on either but nothing else. I'm thinking possibly the PCM is not driving the injectors but it looks like you have to pull the plenum apart to access the wiring? Escapes are new to me, usually older fords, diesels, and the bad GM word is my usual repair time. Any info is much appreciated!
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THEFT light blinks once every 3 seconds when I get in. While cranking the light stays OFF.
One thing I did notice is if I cycle the keep off/on/off/on about 3-5 times then crank it will cough. I didn't notice before if the fuel pump was cycling while cranking but it does not appear to be doing so now. Only the 3-5 second initial run time.
Should run constantly while cranking? This would be controled thru the PCM correct?
One thing I did notice is if I cycle the keep off/on/off/on about 3-5 times then crank it will cough. I didn't notice before if the fuel pump was cycling while cranking but it does not appear to be doing so now. Only the 3-5 second initial run time.
Should run constantly while cranking? This would be controled thru the PCM correct?
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I bypassed the fuel pump relay letting the pump run non stop and got a repeated stumble out of the engine. Nothing much only a few seconds, nothing registering on the tach even.
After quite a few times the THEFT light started staying on, as with most of the cluster lights (battery started getting low again). But went back out when done stumbling. The next time cranking it may or may not stay lit.
After quite a few times the THEFT light started staying on, as with most of the cluster lights (battery started getting low again). But went back out when done stumbling. The next time cranking it may or may not stay lit.
Hotshot
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From: St Louis
When the THEFT light goes out, that's good. It means the PCM hasn't disabled the injectors.
During a normal sequence, the PCM activates the fuel pump for a short time, perhaps two seconds per key-on cycle. It then is turned off until the PCM detects accelerating crankshaft rotation (via the crank sensor) as the engine fires.
Your fuel pressure looks good. Try cracking the throttle 1/4 way to see if the IAC is stuck closed. After that, I'd pump out the tank and put in some fresh gas as see if that works any better. Your suspicion of water in the gas might be right.
During a normal sequence, the PCM activates the fuel pump for a short time, perhaps two seconds per key-on cycle. It then is turned off until the PCM detects accelerating crankshaft rotation (via the crank sensor) as the engine fires.
Your fuel pressure looks good. Try cracking the throttle 1/4 way to see if the IAC is stuck closed. After that, I'd pump out the tank and put in some fresh gas as see if that works any better. Your suspicion of water in the gas might be right.
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Update:
On occasion the "cough" is getting more frequent, but still no start. I pumped alot of the tank out but it still doesn't look like very good gas (fire test didn't fare so well either). Going to finish pumping the tank out and put some fresh in tomorrow.
I pulled and cleaned the IAC, cycling it with my AE and it appears to be working alright.
I'm still not getting a tach reading on the dash, or on my AE.. possible cam sensor? How much of a pain is it to change? Any other thoughts?
On occasion the "cough" is getting more frequent, but still no start. I pumped alot of the tank out but it still doesn't look like very good gas (fire test didn't fare so well either). Going to finish pumping the tank out and put some fresh in tomorrow.
I pulled and cleaned the IAC, cycling it with my AE and it appears to be working alright.
I'm still not getting a tach reading on the dash, or on my AE.. possible cam sensor? How much of a pain is it to change? Any other thoughts?
Hotshot
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From: St Louis
Since you reported the engine runs on ether from the previous attempts, I'm still suspicious of your fuel.
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I'm going to take a gamble and put in crank and cam sensors. Not getting any tach signal has me thinking the pcm is firing injectors/coils at the wrong time.
After my last post I'm starting to get a cough/stumble followed by a backfire thru the intake, or hard lockup stalling the starter.
I'm taking their word that it was running off of either, I'm out so I can't try. Will get some tomorrow with I pick up the sensors. Definately not going to rule out a fuel problem yet, just trying to do everything possible before removing the intake to access the injectors.... With the decent fuel pressure, good gas, doesn't leave much left on the fuel side
After my last post I'm starting to get a cough/stumble followed by a backfire thru the intake, or hard lockup stalling the starter.
I'm taking their word that it was running off of either, I'm out so I can't try. Will get some tomorrow with I pick up the sensors. Definately not going to rule out a fuel problem yet, just trying to do everything possible before removing the intake to access the injectors.... With the decent fuel pressure, good gas, doesn't leave much left on the fuel side
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Update:
Installed new cam and crank sensors this morning, still no tach movement on the dash (haven't hooked up AE yet).
Pulled the top of the intake off to check injectors, no ground signal to open them. Only options, bad crank ring, wire, pcm, right? Anyone have a pin diagram for checking the refenece voltage going into the pcm?
Will not run on either, only back fire thru the intake as if timinig is off....
Installed new cam and crank sensors this morning, still no tach movement on the dash (haven't hooked up AE yet).
Pulled the top of the intake off to check injectors, no ground signal to open them. Only options, bad crank ring, wire, pcm, right? Anyone have a pin diagram for checking the refenece voltage going into the pcm?
Will not run on either, only back fire thru the intake as if timinig is off....
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From: spokane wahington
Are the back coils ok? I would check spark there before you jump to sensors, ecm's and crank rings. I would think a bad coil would cause a miss like it was not timed correctly. Just a guess though. How is the tach gonna move if the engines not running?
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The tach on the dash may not move depending on sensitivity. However their should be a tach signal (50-200 rpm?) sent the the PCM any time the crank moves, engine running or just spinning by the starter.
Might not be wording this right..... but the crank/cam signals are what tells the PCM when to open the injectors and fire the coils. I'm not getting any ground signal to open the injectors so that leads me to believe either the signal is not going to the PCM, or the PCM is not sending the signal to the injectors.
I don't believe the coils are firing at the proper time since any attempt to either start ended up with backfire thru the intake or stalling out the starter.
Might not be wording this right..... but the crank/cam signals are what tells the PCM when to open the injectors and fire the coils. I'm not getting any ground signal to open the injectors so that leads me to believe either the signal is not going to the PCM, or the PCM is not sending the signal to the injectors.
I don't believe the coils are firing at the proper time since any attempt to either start ended up with backfire thru the intake or stalling out the starter.
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From: suburban atlanta
Have you tried communicating with the computer using the OBD-II diagnostic port? With no injector pulse, and apparently off the wall spark pulse, I'd want to be sure the computer was doing its thing before throwing more parts at it.
tom
tom
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I don't have a professional grade scanner, but I do have an Auto Engunity with the Ford enhancements. Unfortantly I can't read individual injector pulse with this scanner, only per bank (which doesn't make sense). I wasn't getting seeing any tach signal with the AE hooked up so that is another reason why I went ahead and changed the crank/cam sensors.
I got a pinout etc off a local garages alldata yesterday, just need time to check out the wiring before jumping on the PCM.
Anyone know if a used PCM out of the same make/model/year will work w/out getting it reflashed?
I got a pinout etc off a local garages alldata yesterday, just need time to check out the wiring before jumping on the PCM.
Anyone know if a used PCM out of the same make/model/year will work w/out getting it reflashed?
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