So, after a ridiculous amount of research, debating, discovery, thinking, idealizing, number crunching and just plan opinions, I have finally found my powertrain route.

I'm going with the 5.4 Triton 3v with a 5 or 6 speed manual.

My reasoning has been all over for a while, but in the end the cost of driving it regularly carried a bit weight. Sure a 460 would be a lot of fun, but at 8mpg in town and maybe 12 on the freeway, there is no way I could use it for a daily driver. Diesels looked interesting but after the initial costs and maintenance costs and the higher fuel prices (I'll get more into that below), and the fact that I've grown to really dislike the sound of a diesel and loved the v8 gas feel and sound, a Cummins started looking like less of a good idea for me. I then started to look at everything out there, weather Ford or not, even debated a 5.7 Hemi, but in the end Ford had the best engine. Maybe not the highest stock numbers, but the torque and horsepower where in more usable areas on the the RPM curve, and the engine seems to be one that can be significantly upgraded if desired.

A stock 5.4 3v puts out about 300hp and 350torque, the 2vs put out a little less, and superchargers on one puts the numbers way up if I ever want more.


The thing to remember is I am building a daily driver, not a weekend driver or show truck. So MPG does come to have significant value. I'm not expecting 30mpg, but the difference between getting 8 verse 12 in town is about $1250 for every 10,000 miles (at $3.00 gas price).

I talked to a guy today who put a 5.4 2v in his '56. It's been very hard to get accurate numbers of what to expect because our trucks are considerably lighter but have different aerodynamics than newer trucks. A 5.4 in a newer truck was rated at 14 city and 18 highway, but in a much heavier truck. The guy I talked to today is seeing 19 city and 22-24 highway with a 5-speed off a mustang and 3.25 gears. That's a huge difference. My guess is a lot has to do with the truck being so much lighter than a newer F150 where 17 highway seemed to be the average people saw.

Now, my truck is bigger than his F100, I'll be up higher and have things like a Dana 60 up front and a transfercase (as well as the extra weight of my frame), but I still recon I will see at least 15 city and 18-20 highway, as I'll be about 1500#s lighter than a newer truck still. Which is right where I want to be at. All the power I need, great gas mileage, proven engine.

At 15 in town mpg I will save about $1750 a year (if I average 10,000 miles) over a 460 giving me about 8mpg. Since I'd like to drive this till I die as an old man, that's going to be a difference in how often I can drive it.




lol, is your head tired yet? Cause mine is, lol.


I thought I would share some of the things I came across for anyone else that's in a similar spot or that might make this more helpful in the archives.

One of the biggest things to remember with diesel is it now costs more than gas. If say a Cummins gets 15mpg city to the gallon, at $4.00 thats $2667 for 10,000 miles. If a Gas engine gets 15mpg city at $3.00, thats $2000 for 10k.

Which means you need to translate the cost per mile between gas and diesel. Since diesel is no longer the cheaper of the two by far, suddenly the mileage isn't as great as it sounds. At these prices a diesel that gets 15mpg is the same as a gas engine that gets 11.2 mpg. Throw in cost to start and maintenance and it starts being less ideal.

(If you're curious on your costs, divide the miles per year (I used 10,000) by your mpg, and then times it by the cost of fuel, I actually made a chart that showed the difference of a few mpg per 10,000 miles that I'll write out later if anyone wants, it adds up pretty quick)


So yep, in the end for me it's the 5.4 Triton. I just figured I would post this and how I got to it for any future readers as I spent a whole lot of time looking through past topics and wishing they had said what they went with and why. Considering it's taken several months to figure this out with all the variables to consider, it should be helpful to anyone else.



So hopefully I'll move soon and be able to do this soon, lol.

 

subscribing. I've been looking at this engine for my '78 F150 4x4 as well. Expeditions are starting to be found in junkyards, too.

 

"several months"... uh I search the thread pretty often for this that and the other, I saw your first engine decision thread. Sure you don't want to amend that to "several years"

 

Lol ok, I've been thinking on it since before I bought the truck. But the past few months I got serious about it

 

I am glad to read you will be using a ford engine. You will be very satisfied with your selection as the 5.4 is an excellent engine.

 

Hey Stephen,
I'm not super familiar with that engine choice - What did it come in?
If you were to go looking for one in the salvage yards - what would you be looking for? How much do you think they cost?

That's a lot of MPG stuff - I just assume if you are building out these old trucks MPG isn't the highest priority as the newer trucks have all sort of tricks to get their mileage up - idling cylinders on the highway, fuel injection, etc.

Ben in Austin

 

They come out of 2000 era trucks and some other things. Heck, they put them in the new shelby cobras. I'm looking at a 03 or newer f150 or such to get a 3v one. The 2v are good but they improved some things on the 3v models.


The 2v ones around here are about $500 with 100,000 miles on them. With a newer one, lower mileage and a transmission and hopefully transfer case, I'm sure it will run me at least $2000. I'll need a wiring harness and other stuff. Not the cheapest route but it will pay for itself pretty quick.

It let's me have all the modern benifits with all the vintage ones too.

 

My '99 Super duty has the 5.4 2v and I HATE the gas mileage. I love the truck, but can't afford to drive it. It gets about 12-13 mpg highway and < 10 around town. I've had it for 3 years and only put 10k miles on it. It has 108k miles on it.

I think the truck is under powered with only 331 cubes. Pulling a loaded trailer is kind of a workout for it.

Spend some time on the superduty or mod motor forums and listen to the 5.4 guys whine about gas mileage.....

Just thought I'd offer up some personal experience....

 

I would stay away from the 2004 model 5.4, I had two of those and both had problems with the timing chain's/tensioners. maybe 2003 or 2005 would be a good motor?

 

I just read 2003 was a transition year where they moved from a Windsor plant to another plant. 2 whole years of "monday" trucks?

 

I've read about the gas mileage not being the greatest either, but in my case, still better than a 351M getting 9mpg, lol. (and no OD)

What rear end ratio does your '99 have?

 

I had a 2005 F150 with 5.4L 3 valve and was very pleased. Highway mpg was around 18 and had all the power I needed. I traded the truck in this past fall for my new f150 Ecoboost and never had one problem over the 105,xxx miles.

 

well, I don't want to bust your bubble.. the 3V variable valve timing engines are hard to run standalone (without the other ford engineered stuff)..

I had one (an 06 5.4 3v) that I just couldn't find a way to use.

the ford aftermarket harness is for the 3v Supercharged, or a 4.6 3v, either only with a manual transmission.. if u want automatic u have to get another separate controller.. from another company, not Ford.
here is the doc on the harness.. http://www.fordracingparts.com/cobra...-463V_54SC.pdf

note that u have to start with an 07/08 harness to use this one..

mine was NOT supercharged. I sold it last month and bought a 4.6 32v which I can mod the harness pretty easily. If i still want to go this way, I have a harness from an 08 Mustang, which is required
if the engine is not 07-09.

"Important Note: The FR power distribution box (FRPDB) and FR wiring harness in this kit must interface to a
production engine harness for model years 2007-2009. The FRPDB and wiring harness will not interface
correctly to the production engine harness for 2005-2006 4.6L 3V, 2010 4.6L 3V or 2010 5.4L 4V. If you own one of
these harnesses, you must purchase an engine harness for a 2007-2009 Mustang."

these engines are throttle by wire, not cable, and require the electronic pedal.

sam

 

The 5.4 3v is a good motor, but i personally would never consider it on one main problem they have.... They have a major issue with the spark plugs.. When doing a tune-up, it is very common for the spark plug to break off in the head, they do make removal tools but if it doesnt work then the head has to be removed to get it out.. I was a mitsubishi tech at a Ford-Mitsubishi dealership and I would say 90% of the 3v 5.4 trucks were haveing heads removed when it came time for the plugs to be replaced due to this issue...just my opinion and just something to think about.. Other then that I do like the motors, they are strong motors but that just scared me away from them.... I'm going to be useing a 4v 4.6 with an AODE trans in my '55 F100

 

I wanted to go manual, I'm not a huge fan of automatics, just not as fun to drive for me. Probably do a supercharged one if I can find it (yeah I know, good luck, lol). The guy who put the 2v one in his used a harness from Detail Zone, granite they're not cheap, but at least they exist.


The thing to remember is power to weight ratio. A Superduty weighs in at around 6300#s. Our trucks don't weigh nearly that much. I've figured with everything I'm doing to mine and even the extra weight of the larger frame, I'll be at about 4000#s. Two-thirds the weight. An f100 is at 3200#s or so with a heavier stock engine. Suddenly 300hp is doing a lot less work to get you moving. It's why my friend is seeing 19 city mpg with his, the engine is moving half the weight around. If I was buying a Superduty, I would probably opt for a larger engine just so it didn't have to work so hard. People who have them in an F150 seem a lot more happier with the gas mileage, and even those are about 5200#s. Aerodynamics helps some, but more for the freeway at a high speed, weight is pretty critical in all of this. Power to weight ratio.

My truck might originally have been an F600, but a F600 from 1956 and one from today are two different beasts. All I really have is more frame and a ton of leaf springs with a big honk'n axle. And even all that I'll be swapping out with a Dana 60 up front and something to match in the back.

Throw a 5 or 6 speed on that thing and on the freeway it will cruise at a very low rpm. I'm doing a lot of figuring to find that sweet spot where everything works it's best.

If I'm lucky I'll find an F250 or F350 from '03 or newer at a great price, and just swap all the parts over. If not, I'll find the engine, then the transmission I want, and axles and so on.