the sniper will be caught and dealt with in an acceptable manner. that said the right to bear arms has and will continue to be attacked. until the majority of americans get out and vote our rights will continue to disapear. a statement was made during the presidential election that had al gore boarded a plane and flew from washington to california. he would have not flown over one state that he carried in the elections. yet he still won the popular vote.... whats wrong with this picture. i think and believe that until the majority of americans get off there back side and becomes active in politics, we will continue to be a country that is controlled by special interest.

 

If this country wanted to ban firearms, they would have to start in small cities and make them city ordinances. The government knows they could not pass a law going against the 2nd Amendment to disarm the American People without another Civil War. Plus, who would be the people disarming the public? Most law enforcement and military are private firearm owners as well, and are not going to turn over their weapons any faster than anyone else, then make you do the same.


As far as the shooter/sniper - how far will our society let this keep happening before we turn against this type of behavior? I for one hopes everyone in that community/area starts carrying a firearm. When it happens again (and it will), I hope there will be a total downpour of gunfire on the vehicle where the shot came from.

I for one am really wondering what this country is going to be like in 25 years. my wife and I celebrated our 1st wedding anniversary a few weeks ago, and were talking about when we woud like to have children. I told her as much as I would like to carry on our family line, I do not know if I could bring a child up knowing what kind of world they are going to be faced with. Even though I truely believe I could be a good parent - teaching them right/wrong, morals and values, I could not totally protect them from the rest of our sadistic world.

Guess I took on a couple of different topics and didn't elaborate on any of them, but my feelings on hese topics would take me too long to type and others too long to read.

As always - JMHO...

 

I heard some idiot politico-type state that all the killings occurred in MD, which has some strict gun laws, and none in VA, where conceal-carry is OK (with proper permiting, etc.), and that the shooter(s) would hesitate to come to VA. I think that statement was made before the shooting in Fredericksburg, VA. Wonder if the shooter(s) was encouraged to come to VA by that statement just to show'em? The only way conceal-carry would enter the picture is if an honest citizen with a gun just happened to see the shooter take his shot, and was then willing to bet he/she saw exactly what they think they saw, and was willing to take the person out. Lot of "ifs" there.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Oct-02 AT 11:16 AM (EST)]Cobraxp: The government can do anything it wants to when it comes to firearms. They can pass laws to outlaw gun ownership and begin confisgation. Of course they would have to eliminate the 2nd Amendment, but they could if they wanted. Remember that legal gun purchases are all a matter of record. The police could simply show up at your home and demand your guns. No compliance then you are arrested and turned into jail.

They have already passed laws against personal concealment in NYC and DC. Two cities that have some of the highest crime rates in the nation. The crooks know that citizens are most likely unarmed. They are sitting ducks.

The only way to protect ourselves from such tyranny is to vote with the politicians that have a record of standing up for the 2nd Amendment. Keep the pressure upon your local city councilors from passing any gun restricions that infringe upon your right to keep and carry firearms in your city. Get and keep current a permit to carry. Be a responsible citizen who just happens to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights.

 

The shooter of that kid apparently did not have a silencer. The news reports said the mother(aunt?) heard the shot and returned to find her boy was shot.

So this guy is willing to fire a gun in a relatively public place, but away from a crowd. The reports say he may have been in a field near the school and might be taunting the local PD. I can think of many areas where there are a lot of people near an empty field with plenty of cover. Wouldn't be hard for a person to pick off people unseen. Don't know if it is true or not, but I have heard that most people can't determine the direction of a single gunshot, so I guess a silencer isn't required for many situations.

Not that I encourage such things, but I wonder if the local PD will "take care of the problem" when they catch this guy. One local PD in an unrelated incident a few months back said that the death of the purp saved the people a lot of money. Sad to think this way, but I think we are coming to that, ie low tolerance for brutal crime. I for one say hang em all.

Just my opinion.

Jim Henderson

 

Jim: No matter how horrendous the crime, when the police become judge, jury, and executioner, we are all in trouble.

 

Brien - I understand they CAN do whatever they want, but the question is of them actually doing it - No, not even close. They want it to start just like NYC, etc. Start small, then when they have the majority to swing their way, they might try it then.

Yes, firearms are outlawed in those areas, but why do they have some of the highest crime rates? There are more guns sold on the street and in between individuals everyday than there are firearms legally sold a week. If the government thinks they are going to "Get the Guns off the street" - and people think it will happen, they are complete idiots. There is no way the guns will ever get taken. And I think there are alot of people like myself that will gladly stand up tp the government and tell them they won't.

I have been a member of the NRA since I was 11 years old and have a lifetime membership. I have my concealed permits and make sure to follow the law when it comes to carrying a weapon. But I won't when it comes to endangering my life, my family, or anyone I care about. This world has gotten too mean and violent to think that resolution will come from elected politicians - no matter who they are voted in.

 

Why can't whack jobs like the person shooting the innocents go do their evil to people such as Saddam. It upsets me so much to see innocent people harmed and it will upset me even more when they catch this SOB and lock him up for life with our money because he plead insanity. That whole area of the law is grey and shouldn't be twisted to let some sick puke live in a cell for the rest of his life. They've obviously proven that they can't live in society with the rest of us... so why not just do unto them what they have done unto others. Wax them. We need more Jack Ruby's.

Once caught, they should take out a kneecap one day, a kneecap the next day, a shoulder the following day... and keep doing it until he's bled to death. All the while sitting atop a mound of salt, raining rubbing alchohol. Oops.. was that a little over the top? I'm sorry but this guy is a coward and is proving nothing.

Graffe.

 

>Why can't whack jobs like the person shooting the innocents
>go do their evil to people such as Saddam. It upsets me so
>much to see innocent people harmed and it will upset me even
>more when they catch this SOB and lock him up for life with
>our money because he plead insanity. That whole area of the
>law is grey and shouldn't be twisted to let some sick puke
>live in a cell for the rest of his life. They've obviously
>proven that they can't live in society with the rest of
>us... so why not just do unto them what they have done unto
>others. Wax them. We need more Jack Ruby's.
>
>Once caught, they should take out a kneecap one day, a
>kneecap the next day, a shoulder the following day... and
>keep doing it until he's bled to death. All the while
>sitting atop a mound of salt, raining rubbing alchohol.
>Oops.. was that a little over the top? I'm sorry but this
>guy is a coward and is proving nothing.
>
>Graffe.




hehehehe - I like the way you think...

 

Obrien's statement of judge jury and executioner is correct. It IS bad if the police or people start to take justice into their own hands. But I am afraid that we ARE being pushed to that point, and that is unfortunate. I am also irked that I feel like we have justification to do so in some cases. Society is becoming less forgiving due to the lackadaisical enforcement of the past, and that is a bad sign.

Vigilante justice is wrong but all too often it makes us feel good. I hope we change, but fear we won't.

Jim Henderson

 

I don't necessarily agree with vigilante justice either - my definition of that is someone taking it upon themselves to track, hunt and play judge/jury. I do agree with it when it is a case of self defense for someone, their family, or someone in need. If someone opens fire and I have a way to defend myself and those around me - then I will make sure I do.

 

Jim: I know what you mean. Look at the posts calling for torture. They are simply outrageous. I can sympathize with their feelings of outrage but I must draw the line when dropping down to a level of punishment that make us as a society, no better than the criminal that perpetrates these heinous crimes. I hope those that advocate lawlessness, ie torture, are writing this in a joking manner. Otherwise, I think what you have written is true.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Oct-02 AT 04:58 PM (EST)]>I don't necessarily agree with vigilante justice either - my
>definition of that is someone taking it upon themselves to
>track, hunt and play judge/jury. I do agree with it when it
>is a case of self defense for someone, their family, or
>someone in need. If someone opens fire and I have a way to
>defend myself and those around me - then I will make sure I
>do.

Cobraxp: Self defense is not vigilante justice. It is self defense.
Your definition of vigilante is correct but you forgot executioner.
Self defense and vigilante justice are two entirely different concepts.


As far as the government and guns go. The government can do anythings it want to do. They can sweep society for firearms and get most. They will turn citizens into criminals if they want to. They do it everyday with drug offenders. Make no mistake, if they want the guns, they will get them. You or I will never stop them. There is only strength in numbers.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Oct-02 AT 05:37 PM (EST)]Quote:Look at the posts calling for torture. They are simply outrageous

Yes, there was some humor found in my post but there was honesty too. Acts such as this sniper deserve HARD punishment. My opinion is, and always will be, an eye for an eye. We have a lot of crime in our society because we are so soft in our punishment. The criminals have no fear and therefore, have no respect.

Growing up, I was (and partially still am) afraid of my father. You know why? Because he was law and he could back it up. Not to the point of cruelty or beatings, by any means. But there was enough fear of the consequences ahead that he had my respect.

Our society has made a slow progression downhill to the point where we cater to criminals. We need to stop the momentum, turn it around and find a happy medium somewhere to the point that criminals will understand there will be harsh consequences for evil acts.

Graffe.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Oct-02 AT 07:02 PM (EST)]I agree with a lot of things said here.


However,

#1 no amount of torture or punishment is going to stop people from going off their rocker and doing things like this. We live in a society of 200,000,000 (two-hundred-million-plus-people) does ANYONE, ANYONE AT ALL, think that if you torture this guy, it's going to stop the next killer from committing murder?

#2 There are several serial killers conducting their business in the U.S.A. right this minute. The Media CHOOSES what they want to tell you about in order to raise their ratings. This case has received the publicity because it contains 2 very "newsworthy" (read : ratings rich) issues. That is Murder, and Murder by FIREARM.

We have a serial killer in Baton Rouge (or had, I don't know if they have been caught yet) that has killed a few different women. This case has gotten almost 0 publicity because the killer does NOT use a firearm.

#3 A few years ago after Florida approved the concealed carry permits to carry concealed in the state, statistics showed that there was indeed a drop in the violent crime rate in this state. These statistics were buried so deep by the MEDIA and Anti-gun freaks like Rosie O'donnel, that almost no one except pro-gunners found out about it.

Politicians are weasels ok, hehe, I think most of us can agree on that. What I think a lot of people have a hard time seeing is that our Media is no better. The media is a business designed to make cash, and they know as well as we do that Murder by Firearm makes big news. Serial Murder by Firearm makes awesome news. And when they've got nothing better, it's "Look at all the shark attacks!", "Look at all the kidnappings." etc. etc.

when in truth there has been no rise in shark attacks or kidnappings. It was a simple case of (we're out of the good stuff to run, what's left?)

If you want to point fingers, include the media, not just the politicians and the government. The Media does a hell of a lot more influencing than any politician we've got, including Congress and the President.

As for the NRA, well, I USED to belong, I don't anymore. There's a good reason for it. The NRA has shot itself in the foot so many times (pun intended) that all it's really accomplished is cancelled memberships over the years.

Some of the NRA speakers i've seen are exactly the type of people that we don't WANT having guns in this country, and that's bad news. The NRA bases it's arguments on emotions rather than facts and this as well is bad news. Not to mention, the NRA has politicked many of the gun-owners rights away over the years. Choosing to compromise rather than keeping a firm stand.

With that said, I'm a gun owner, but when I see bumper stickers like "You'll have to pry my gun out of my cold, dead, hand." etc. etc. I'm surprised that anyone can still own a firearm in this country.

I'm sorry for the victims of this, and every, senseless crime committed by the whacko's of the world. Unfortunately, as I see it, we're doing everything we can already. I cannot fathom how we could ever stop crimes like this before they are committed.

And as far as the police are concerned, they help out, but in truth, 90% of the time they're nothing more than the cleanup crew when it comes to this type of crime. They do a lot of good in a lot of ways, but they cannot act until AFTER the crime has been committed.

There are things that can be done, for instance, shortening non-violent offender's sentences. Why should a woman who is hooked on heroin spend 20 years in jail when a man who committed rape gets 3-5? I may sound like some kind of Hippy here (i'm not) but I want to know why someone can spend 5 years in jail for a little baggy of Marijuana when it's been proven that Marijuana is no WORSE than Alcohol, and less addictive than Alcohol or Tobacco? (In fact, it's not addictive at all, physically). Why are so many of our resources being spent on preventing the black market sale of these drugs? When we have all of these violent crimes (and very few of them being done with firearms) going on, day in, and day out? We could be spending a lot more resources on violent crimes and the violent people who commit them, if we as a society quit acting so stupid about so many things.


BTW : It has been proven that Usage of Marijuana in theory is five times more likely to cause cancer than cigarettes. If you compare the ratio of cigarettes to joints as 1:1, THC contained in Marijuana causes short term memory loss and a decrease in muscle control causing slowed reaction times. Marijuana is scientifically labeled as a hallucinogen. And is politically labeled as a narcotic.
So even if it were legal, I wouldn't recommend using it, it causes as much damage as Alcohol over long periods of time.



Sorry I went WAY off topic, but I felt that many of these things are very intertwined. Stupidity breeds stupidity in every facet of our society. hehe.