Am I crazy? project idea
Junior User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
barockeva,
The 77-79 Big Bird is based on the same chassis starting with the 72 Torino/Montego and carried over to the Crown Vic up to a certain year. The Rancheros and Wagons included, some were a bit longer depending on their configuration, but still much the same. Yours is no different, with the adjustments of some body mounts, and maybe not, your body would fit down onto some of the Crown Vic/Grand Marque frames and complete chassis. This way you could get modern drive train, brakes, electronics ect... very easy. I would look for a complete Interceptor, I have seen them as low as $1500. for a complete car.
The 77-79 Big Bird is based on the same chassis starting with the 72 Torino/Montego and carried over to the Crown Vic up to a certain year. The Rancheros and Wagons included, some were a bit longer depending on their configuration, but still much the same. Yours is no different, with the adjustments of some body mounts, and maybe not, your body would fit down onto some of the Crown Vic/Grand Marque frames and complete chassis. This way you could get modern drive train, brakes, electronics ect... very easy. I would look for a complete Interceptor, I have seen them as low as $1500. for a complete car.
Junior User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
LOL, sorry, but yes... and least expensive.
I have built vehicles 1 piece at a time, from the ground up, starting with the bones and working up is easier then adding front ends, rear ends, brakes, motor, trans, electronics, ect...
I had looked at similar donor vehicles for my 79 Ranchero as I would like decent performance and much better MPG. Not trying to talk you out of the modern stuff, but you can build an efficient small block cheaper and easier than almost anything. There have been many 302's running strong and getting decent MPG, I had contemplated a SB to take the place of my 351M. Parts are cheap and easy to get, go 5 speed, that would be cool, different and help with MPG.
I have built vehicles 1 piece at a time, from the ground up, starting with the bones and working up is easier then adding front ends, rear ends, brakes, motor, trans, electronics, ect...
I had looked at similar donor vehicles for my 79 Ranchero as I would like decent performance and much better MPG. Not trying to talk you out of the modern stuff, but you can build an efficient small block cheaper and easier than almost anything. There have been many 302's running strong and getting decent MPG, I had contemplated a SB to take the place of my 351M. Parts are cheap and easy to get, go 5 speed, that would be cool, different and help with MPG.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
I may be in the minority on this one, but I actually like the way my car handles like a tank. New vehicles are too bouncy. The improved drive-train performance is literally the only thing I want to change on it. More reliable power, and better overall gas mileage. Going to a 5-speed would require a whole lot of chopping I'd really rather not do. I also prefer driving automatics. Manuals are for more aggressive drivers than I am.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 820
Likes: 11
Maybe a Cleveland. It would drop in using your motor mounts and you could back it up with a junkyard smallblock AOD like this.
1989 FORD MUSTANG AOD TRANSMISSION 5.0 GT LX | eBay
That way you wouldn't have to fab much, really just a trans mount. I've seen the stockers modified to work in other Ford cars. You can still find good running Cleveland engines out there, though you may have to buy the car around it, or a good rebuildible core that just needs a rering and new bearings.
Ford 351C motor
Ford 351C, 302, Modular 5.4 F150 engines
I could see this going in for much less that $3k. You could top it with any of the aftermarket port injection systems I listed earlier. Or keep an eye on Ebay. I picked up a 1st gen 700 CFM Holley ProJection system a few years ago for my 78 F150. If I remember right I only paid around $300 for it. Here are some more
Holley Pro-jection 2D Double Barrel Carburetor | eBay
holley projection | eBay
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
Just something to think about.
Oh, and if your fab skills aren't up to date or you don't have someone to help you you really may want to rethink the MOD motor. There's going to be a lot of cutting and welding to get one into your car.
1989 FORD MUSTANG AOD TRANSMISSION 5.0 GT LX | eBay
That way you wouldn't have to fab much, really just a trans mount. I've seen the stockers modified to work in other Ford cars. You can still find good running Cleveland engines out there, though you may have to buy the car around it, or a good rebuildible core that just needs a rering and new bearings.
Ford 351C motor
Ford 351C, 302, Modular 5.4 F150 engines
I could see this going in for much less that $3k. You could top it with any of the aftermarket port injection systems I listed earlier. Or keep an eye on Ebay. I picked up a 1st gen 700 CFM Holley ProJection system a few years ago for my 78 F150. If I remember right I only paid around $300 for it. Here are some more
Holley Pro-jection 2D Double Barrel Carburetor | eBay
holley projection | eBay
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
Just something to think about.
Oh, and if your fab skills aren't up to date or you don't have someone to help you you really may want to rethink the MOD motor. There's going to be a lot of cutting and welding to get one into your car.
Thread Starter
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New User
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
How well do the bolt one efi units work in comparison to an engine built with it?
For the trans mounts, there are aftermarket supports for mustangs that swap to AOD, would it be easier to modify one of those to my car, or mod the existing mount to work with the AOD?
For the trans mounts, there are aftermarket supports for mustangs that swap to AOD, would it be easier to modify one of those to my car, or mod the existing mount to work with the AOD?
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
From: Erie, Pa
I can shed some light on the AOD, I had one in my 79 Tbird for awhile. Bolt in, mechanicaly it is. I did have to move the trans crossmemeber, but the holes were already there. I had a hell of a time getting the TV cable adjusted right.
SInce then, the car has been thru alot of changes and is no longer stock by any means, nor fuel efficient lol.
SInce then, the car has been thru alot of changes and is no longer stock by any means, nor fuel efficient lol.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 820
Likes: 11
Well. There's your answer for the trans.
The EFI systems have mixed reviews and it makes sense. There are a dozen or so manufactures and they all go about it in different ways. It does seem that the newest units to the market are getting more user friendly and there are a bunch that are plug and play and self learning. The first generation Holley is the only one that I have any experience with at this point. This was a dirt simply unit that has sadly been discontinued. Install is fairly easy, just undo the carb and bolt the throttlebody in its place. You will have to weld a bung into the exhaust for an O2 sensor but any exhaust shop can do that for next to nothing. The involved work is with the fuel line as you need to pipe in the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, and then run a larger than stock high pressure line (EFI rated) all the way to the motor. You will also have to run an even larger return line but it can be standard pressure. It's not a hard job but does take a little time and effort to get right. The ECU has adjustment ***** on the box itself so you don't need a laptop to tune it. The biggest thing is to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER. The manual is great and will have step by step tuning instructions that will involve several test drives and, at times, a helper.
Performance wise they work. You'll give up a little power compared to a properly setup carb but you'll gain better drivability and a few MPGs. They, of course, are a universal system and don't perform as well as a factory multiport system. They are comparable to any of the factory port systems that the big three used during the 80s.
I've been looking at several other systems for use on a couple different projects I have going. I think the next time I pull out my hot rodded Mustang II the Edelbrock 750 carb is going to get replaced by the Professional Products system that I posted before. Though it is made in China, it has been getting good reviews from the car magazines. It's a returnless fuel design, only needing a supply line (and there is an optional kit for that), is self learning/tuning and has the ability to support a supercharged motor.
The EFI systems have mixed reviews and it makes sense. There are a dozen or so manufactures and they all go about it in different ways. It does seem that the newest units to the market are getting more user friendly and there are a bunch that are plug and play and self learning. The first generation Holley is the only one that I have any experience with at this point. This was a dirt simply unit that has sadly been discontinued. Install is fairly easy, just undo the carb and bolt the throttlebody in its place. You will have to weld a bung into the exhaust for an O2 sensor but any exhaust shop can do that for next to nothing. The involved work is with the fuel line as you need to pipe in the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, and then run a larger than stock high pressure line (EFI rated) all the way to the motor. You will also have to run an even larger return line but it can be standard pressure. It's not a hard job but does take a little time and effort to get right. The ECU has adjustment ***** on the box itself so you don't need a laptop to tune it. The biggest thing is to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER. The manual is great and will have step by step tuning instructions that will involve several test drives and, at times, a helper.
Performance wise they work. You'll give up a little power compared to a properly setup carb but you'll gain better drivability and a few MPGs. They, of course, are a universal system and don't perform as well as a factory multiport system. They are comparable to any of the factory port systems that the big three used during the 80s.
I've been looking at several other systems for use on a couple different projects I have going. I think the next time I pull out my hot rodded Mustang II the Edelbrock 750 carb is going to get replaced by the Professional Products system that I posted before. Though it is made in China, it has been getting good reviews from the car magazines. It's a returnless fuel design, only needing a supply line (and there is an optional kit for that), is self learning/tuning and has the ability to support a supercharged motor.
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,376
Likes: 605
From: evansville in
Well. There's your answer for the trans.
The EFI systems have mixed reviews and it makes sense. There are a dozen or so manufactures and they all go about it in different ways. It does seem that the newest units to the market are getting more user friendly and there are a bunch that are plug and play and self learning. The first generation Holley is the only one that I have any experience with at this point. This was a dirt simply unit that has sadly been discontinued. Install is fairly easy, just undo the carb and bolt the throttlebody in its place. You will have to weld a bung into the exhaust for an O2 sensor but any exhaust shop can do that for next to nothing. The involved work is with the fuel line as you need to pipe in the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, and then run a larger than stock high pressure line (EFI rated) all the way to the motor. You will also have to run an even larger return line but it can be standard pressure. It's not a hard job but does take a little time and effort to get right. The ECU has adjustment ***** on the box itself so you don't need a laptop to tune it. The biggest thing is to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER. The manual is great and will have step by step tuning instructions that will involve several test drives and, at times, a helper.
Performance wise they work. You'll give up a little power compared to a properly setup carb but you'll gain better drivability and a few MPGs. They, of course, are a universal system and don't perform as well as a factory multiport system. They are comparable to any of the factory port systems that the big three used during the 80s.
I've been looking at several other systems for use on a couple different projects I have going. I think the next time I pull out my hot rodded Mustang II the Edelbrock 750 carb is going to get replaced by the Professional Products system that I posted before. Though it is made in China, it has been getting good reviews from the car magazines. It's a returnless fuel design, only needing a supply line (and there is an optional kit for that), is self learning/tuning and has the ability to support a supercharged motor.
The EFI systems have mixed reviews and it makes sense. There are a dozen or so manufactures and they all go about it in different ways. It does seem that the newest units to the market are getting more user friendly and there are a bunch that are plug and play and self learning. The first generation Holley is the only one that I have any experience with at this point. This was a dirt simply unit that has sadly been discontinued. Install is fairly easy, just undo the carb and bolt the throttlebody in its place. You will have to weld a bung into the exhaust for an O2 sensor but any exhaust shop can do that for next to nothing. The involved work is with the fuel line as you need to pipe in the fuel pump as close to the tank as possible, and then run a larger than stock high pressure line (EFI rated) all the way to the motor. You will also have to run an even larger return line but it can be standard pressure. It's not a hard job but does take a little time and effort to get right. The ECU has adjustment ***** on the box itself so you don't need a laptop to tune it. The biggest thing is to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER. The manual is great and will have step by step tuning instructions that will involve several test drives and, at times, a helper.
Performance wise they work. You'll give up a little power compared to a properly setup carb but you'll gain better drivability and a few MPGs. They, of course, are a universal system and don't perform as well as a factory multiport system. They are comparable to any of the factory port systems that the big three used during the 80s.
I've been looking at several other systems for use on a couple different projects I have going. I think the next time I pull out my hot rodded Mustang II the Edelbrock 750 carb is going to get replaced by the Professional Products system that I posted before. Though it is made in China, it has been getting good reviews from the car magazines. It's a returnless fuel design, only needing a supply line (and there is an optional kit for that), is self learning/tuning and has the ability to support a supercharged motor.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 820
Likes: 11
Okay, tell me how you really feel.
Really bro, I appreciate the advice. Like I said I haven't worked with one of these units before so I'm going off what I've read in car mags and the internet. There are a bunch of new systems on the market so it's hard to figure out the ins and out of each. If I may ask, what was the Professional Products system doing? Why wouldn't it work?
And the f.a.s.t. system, how does it work? How hard was the setup and tuning? Will it work in a blow through setup? What type of fuel system did you run? Sorry for the questions but you have the experience that I'm looking for and I'd hate to make a $1900 mistake.
Really bro, I appreciate the advice. Like I said I haven't worked with one of these units before so I'm going off what I've read in car mags and the internet. There are a bunch of new systems on the market so it's hard to figure out the ins and out of each. If I may ask, what was the Professional Products system doing? Why wouldn't it work?
And the f.a.s.t. system, how does it work? How hard was the setup and tuning? Will it work in a blow through setup? What type of fuel system did you run? Sorry for the questions but you have the experience that I'm looking for and I'd hate to make a $1900 mistake.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,376
Likes: 605
From: evansville in
Absolutly No problem. I just dont want anyone else to make the same wrong decision I made.
Well,here goes. It had a moderate throttle cut out/lean condition.
NOTHING would cure the problem. After calling professional products multiple times and none of the recommendations doing any good.
In the middle of all that the computer kept locking up and loosing any stored settings for tuning.
The dumb thing would go completly on tangents and not respond to tuning then next not idle at all.just doing what it wanted to do.
The feedback fuel pressure sensor also went bad.That problem then made the fuel pump run full on all the time. Mind you that one happened before I ever even got the car on the road much less to my customer. Professional products then told me that the system was not under warranty....WHAT? Would warranty not begin when the customer recieved the car since I bought it for resale? Tell me Speedway motors would have no warranty if it sat on their shelf?
The fuel system on that system was the provided P.P. other than the 3/8 fuel line I provided.
The engine it was installed on was a completly stock GMPP ZZ4 crate engine.It had zero miles. I removed that system and changed to another system and the problems all disappered and it runs great.
I dont want to bash PP to promote any one system just to steer you from PP.I would have not been so surprised with driveability issues if it was some nasty high comp,big cammed monster.However this thing is MILD!
I have MANY hours in an attempt to give that system a chance to work. I am a seasoned tech with 15 yrs experience with 7 ase certs and just a general gear head. I just cant tell you how BAD that system was.Heck I am getting mad just thinking about it and this all happened quite a while ago.
Well,here goes. It had a moderate throttle cut out/lean condition.
NOTHING would cure the problem. After calling professional products multiple times and none of the recommendations doing any good.
In the middle of all that the computer kept locking up and loosing any stored settings for tuning.
The dumb thing would go completly on tangents and not respond to tuning then next not idle at all.just doing what it wanted to do.
The feedback fuel pressure sensor also went bad.That problem then made the fuel pump run full on all the time. Mind you that one happened before I ever even got the car on the road much less to my customer. Professional products then told me that the system was not under warranty....WHAT? Would warranty not begin when the customer recieved the car since I bought it for resale? Tell me Speedway motors would have no warranty if it sat on their shelf?
The fuel system on that system was the provided P.P. other than the 3/8 fuel line I provided.
The engine it was installed on was a completly stock GMPP ZZ4 crate engine.It had zero miles. I removed that system and changed to another system and the problems all disappered and it runs great.
I dont want to bash PP to promote any one system just to steer you from PP.I would have not been so surprised with driveability issues if it was some nasty high comp,big cammed monster.However this thing is MILD!
I have MANY hours in an attempt to give that system a chance to work. I am a seasoned tech with 15 yrs experience with 7 ase certs and just a general gear head. I just cant tell you how BAD that system was.Heck I am getting mad just thinking about it and this all happened quite a while ago.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,376
Likes: 605
From: evansville in
The fast system was bought complete as a deluxe kit with fuel line kit,pump,regulator etc.
I simply installed the system went through the setup tables and it ran like a new car.The idle setup was made easy with the way it was displayed on the handheld in graph form.I really cant say much more because it was anticlimactic. It just simply did exactly what it was supposed to do. Run and drive.
I am sorry to take up so much time and I am not usually so forward .This is such a large percentage of most peoples budjet and i know personally I could not afford to make a bad decision. Therefore I must tell my experience.
I simply installed the system went through the setup tables and it ran like a new car.The idle setup was made easy with the way it was displayed on the handheld in graph form.I really cant say much more because it was anticlimactic. It just simply did exactly what it was supposed to do. Run and drive.
I am sorry to take up so much time and I am not usually so forward .This is such a large percentage of most peoples budjet and i know personally I could not afford to make a bad decision. Therefore I must tell my experience.