Well guys and gals, it would certainly appear to me that after many months of abusing a 32 year old truck, it's starting to fall apart. Thankfully, it's only the head gaskets. Now, I know the simple answer is just replace the head gaskets, but I figured I could use some input from you all. Since I'll have to tear it down some anyway, should I go the extra mile and have the engine overhauled? It's got about 170k on it now, still runs pretty well otherwise, but maybe I should just go and have it freshened up. Now, I'm capable of doing this type of work myself, but I don't have the patience. Should I take it to the shop and have them puzzled by all the rerouted vacuum lines, missing components, etc or should I just gather up the nerve and do it in my own driveway? Thanks in advance.

 

Depends (and not the product some think of with respect, or the lack thereof, to me). Depends on what you want the truck to do, on how long you want it to do it, and on how much you are willing to spend.

Personally, I wouldn't pull the heads and just put a new head gasket on even if I were selling the truck to an enemy, much less if I were keeping it. At the very least I'd send the heads out to have a valve job done and to make sure they are flat and not cracked. That's because it is likely one or both are warped since the head gasket let loose. But, putting solid heads on a worn engine isn't the best policy, so if you are going to keep the truck then I'd rebuild it.

Having just done a 351W I can tell you that you are looking at $1,000 for the machine work, parts, and gaskets. And, that's if you get a good deal on the machine work, as I did. But, the same $1k does either a 302 or a 351W, so why would you rebuild the 302? Worn out engines are easy to come by, so get a 351W and end up with a lot more torque.

However, for just a little bit more than that you can go with an after market cam and have even more torque. And then there's the heads, which don't flow well at all in stock form but can flow very well if you go with something like Thumpers.

On the other hand, if you are selling the truck soon you can probably find a running 302 or 351W for $350 that will get the truck down the road.

Again, it depends. On what you want it to do, how long you want it to do it, and how deep your pockets are.

 

My main problem is I like to play and be a bit rough at times. I guess it's my fault for doing that with a motor so worn out in the first place, but either way I go, I'd like something strong that will hold up for a while. I've debated a 351W swap, but they seem a bit too mainstream, and the 302 is original to the truck as it is. If anything I'd like to get ahold of a '60s or '70s 302 block and build it up, but for right now I don't have much more money than to just fix what I have. Thanks for mentioning the head work, that had slipped my mind.

 

Yea, I know what you mean.

Problem is though, the wife and I are feeling a little too old for that these days....

 

You are on a roll tonight! I can't wait for #3.

 

Well, we quit doing that too....

 

I actually expected that response.

Sorry Ranger80, we highjacked your thread. But, we MAY be done now, so back to you.

 

Oh it's alright, I enjoyed the laugh

I may just go ahead and run this thing until it goes boom in the literal sense. The local scrapyard has the entire Windsor family for me to choose from. I believe they even have a 289 that hasn't been picked through yet. I don't use this truck for hauling or towing, so the torque the 351 would make isn't really an issue. I'd like to go back to a 302 but last I checked they don't have any complete ones there anymore.

 

Time to throw dirt on ya?

 

You can get a precise straight edge and check the heads yourself. I believe the tolerance is .004". I have one that I'm using to check my son's heads on his suburban. As far as machine work go, you don't have to bore over if you don't have to. If that makes sense. If the cylinder walls aren't gouged or too out of round you can just have them honed. You can get a cylinder gauge and find out how out of round they are by buying a cylinder gauge. Amazon has one pretty cheap. http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-.../dp/B000I8QVES

If they are too far out of round, then you will have to get them machined. This cost me about $300 here.

Next would be to check the rod bearing journals and cam journals for roundness. Same principle as the cylinders.

Freshening up the engine could be getting a master rebuild kit and going from there or just doing to head gasket swap and see how long she lasts. If you really want to get fancy there's always crate motors.

 

Have you performed compression or leak down tests? That will tell you a lot about the condition of your engine. Obviously you might have some issues on where the gasket is blown, but depending on how it went out (between two cylinders or somewhere else) you might be able to get decent results on your tests.

 

170,000 miles? I'd at least do a ring and valve job on it when it's apart.

Also if coolant has entered the cylinders it could make those pistons exposed to the coolant brittle. I'd consider replacing them too if the head gasket is blown that way. Don't drive it too long if it's like that. Busted pistons are nasty and can ruin the block etc...

 

I think I'd at least check and see if everything I could reach without further disassembly was in spec. If something was close to out, mebbe I'd rip in a little deeper....

 

Couple of questions:
What is your budget?
What is your intended use?
What is your horsepower goal?

If you are planning on just a rebuild, which I think the motor is ready for having 170,000 miles on it, and you are going to pick up another motor to rebuild:

Make sure the one you get is out of a truck, there is a difference. The rod bolts for a truck motor will have football shaped heads on them. The standard passenger car rods will have more of a rectangle shaped head. The truck rods will take more of a beating than the car rods. It's also not a bad idea to upgrade to ARP bolts.

For the blocks, it's getting hard to find a 60's block, and if you can find one for cheap, grab it. For the 70's - 80's blocks, there's really no difference. So you are pretty open if a 60's block isn't in the equation. Don't let anyone try to talk you into a "better" block as there really isn't one, unless it's a SVO or Motorsport or something like that. As for the "Mexican" block, don't waste your time, it'll say "Made in Mehico" in the lifter valley. The main caps are thicker as with the some of the webbing inside of the block. They were made thicker for a reason, cheaper cast iron.

Heads, if you plan on getting different ones, get '78-up heads. If you want better yet, find a set of E7TE heads or a set of 5.0 Explorer heads. If you go pre-78, they are not bolt-down rockers and the studs do have a chance of pulling out if not installed correctly (I've had it happen, stupid engine builder). The studs CAN be drilled and pinned though. If you do not plan on running an emissions systems, you can always grind the injection bump out of the exhaust port. Factory, this is one of the biggest restrictions.

A few things to think about and you should be able to get 302 parts fairly cheap. Don't want you to get screwed by the ignorance from some of those guys at the scrap yards (though some really know what they're dealing with).

Dave

 

Well, I don't have just gobs of money to go spend on it, but I'm sure I have enough to make sure it's done right. All I want really is just a reliable truck for a DD that will give plenty of reliable service, but then again I'd like it to be able to haul a** when I want it to. Horsepower isn't really an issue to me. It has no modifications as it is, and I'm sure it's not quite as powerful as it once was, but it's enough for me.