Wouldn't the T.C. slippage be working against it as well ?

 

The TC is where most of the HP is robbed, BUT you can do a custom TC through guys like edge that will work really well for pulling (allow some slip off the line and then lock up pretty darn solid above 3000 rpm.

 

Chassis

1.Factory truck frame 1 ton or less required with coil or leaf springs. Must have a minimum of 5 working rear leaf springs or factory coil spring setup if so equipped.
2.Blocked suspension is permitted. No Solid suspension allowed.
3.Traction bars are permitted.

So whats up with rule number 2 there? If you block your rear suspension and are allowed ladder bars isn't that solid? If I read it how I think it "should" read, how much suspension travel are you allowed in the rear. Jamey (The Freak) is right, even if you build a barely decent 460 that 60 rear is gonna be nothing but trouble for you and "open" suspension only makes things worse/harder on it, if you don't weld it solid it will last longer, but if welded you'll break it with a stock engine if things get a little rough. I personally run a 14 bolt and have had zero issues with it, but..... slip yokes, U joints, yokes, transfer case, 44 front, took me a whole season to get em to the point of moderatly reliable (44 went to 60 front). I'm only 476 cube (Screamin Bohemian), stock length Eagle H beams, dome KB hyper pistons and roll in around 13:1 compression. I didn't see anyone mention this, but even though your target rpm will prolly be around the low 6 area if your chipped at 6,800rpms, beware on the oiling system. Granted I target around 7,600, the guy who did my first motor didn't modify the oiling system right and it didn't last. Something to be well aware of when turning long amounts of time over 6K.

Monsterbaby: My other pullin truck is an auto (for the wife to drive) and this year it's getting twice the HP throwin at it. Anyways I already built the C-6 up but have been tortured with torque converter issues last off season. I was oroginally shooting for a 3,000 stall, but the company I was working with was riddled with issues (taking a c6 and 205 out 5 times on a floor jack was one slip away from a busted rip cage), but I ended up buying a converter from a local tranny shop that I was told would stall around 2,500rpms, it stalls about 1,800rpms. That will have to be changed with this new motor and I have a bad taste in my mouth from off the shelf converters and was planning on getting this converter modified, have you used this "Edge" place personally?

 

Torque converter stall is related to engine torque. If your engine has a huge cam, with a lack of low end torque, it will stall much lower vs if you had a setup optimized for low end torque.

 

I agree and had told the shop all about what I wanted/needed it to do. "Oh yeah, this one here will be perfect, etc, etc." The main issue I was having was idle with the cam it had, when the tranny fluid was cold it wasn't freewheeling enough and giving me fits. Under full load it does stall somewhere over 2 (I haven't had much of a chance to ever pull the truck myself, only once and then she wouldn't get outta the seat, lol). This new motor will diffently need a higher stall and I just want to get it done when putting in the new motor and have it done right.

 

The Freak: i am aware of the 60 rear issues... mainly the lack of another pinion bearing unlike the GM 14 bolts. and what would happen if i had left the gears at approx 4.10's rather than slowing it down a bit to 5.38's?\
Redneck-Cowboy: what that rule is talking about is, you can not cut off your hangers shackles and leafs and make up a SOLID mount. its saying that if you take your blocks out that you still have a functioning suspesion. in my green truck, i run blocks and have a... not as common, but DAMN good...ladder bar set up. not many guys around here run theres like mine, but i think that the people who see mine, understand my design, and want to run theres on the road at same time as being very sturdy for pulling, are catching on to it. as far as the oiling problems... are you talking about things such as lifter bores needing bushed orwhat????? i'd love to make a motor that has a super solid power band topping out between 5600-6000 rpm, something to make the high end power, but with a little lower rpms.
and so im taking it you guys think i should just throw the same money towards good 4spd conversion and set up and be further ahead than running a built c6?

 

Without getting too complicated, your final ratio with a C-6, 205 & 4.10's would be 19.769, with a NP, it would be 26.84. With a C6, even if you put 5.38's in the diffs, your ratio would still be a little bit faster than the NP at 25.94. You can see how much running an auto vs a stick affects your final ratio.

Chris (RedNeckCowboy) and I both can attest that a C6 with 4.10's (205 x-case) does not work, as we both have had trucks with that setup. He put in 5.13's last year, and this year, we are putting them in a 'stock' puller that my Dad pulls. If his wife and my Dad did not like running the autos, we would have sticks in both trucks.

 

On my c-6 truck I started with the 4.10's, way to fast, I couldn't get it above 3,000 rpm. With the manual setup, 33's and 4.10's your shooting around 27mph in low 2nd and 7,500 rpms, the C-6 puts you at like 37mph (this is just guessing, I have a calculator app for this at home), so on the C6 truck I went to 5.13's and it took care of it, yet that truck can fit 37's to go down the highway, although it's basically becoming a full blown puller, so that won't matter anymore.

Ok, so you just have to leave the suspension on the rear, but you can block it solid. That's what I did on the auto truck as well, runs ladder bars all the time, but has removable blocks that bolt solid from axle to frame.

The lifter bores do get bushed, but since we run full rollers, the top end of the motor is almost completely blocked off to oil, the cam bearings are machined for roller cam bearings, oil passages are bored out in the bottom end and our oil pumps are cranked wide open, full psi, full volume and are externally regualated and usually run around 70-100psi of oil psi. However if you don't see over 6K much I think you'll be alright leaving it as is.

With the C-6 you'll have to buy rearend gears, build the tranny up, buy a T/C (there is also a lower set of planataries for 1st in the C6 you can get that should set you up at around needing 4.56's). The auto is generally easier on the drivetrain since the T/C is acting like a big fluid dampened cushion.
With a T-18/19 or NP435 there is no modification needed for the tranny, however you'll have to spend money on a good clutch, we're personally double disc setups and when you do that you have to space out that stock or blowproof bellhousing about 5/8" and have a custom pilot bearing made.

So speaking from experience, that C-6 is a money pit to setup (for pulling), wish I'd a just spent my time doing the manual conversion (truck was a 2wd auto to begin with) and teaching the wife to drive a clutch better, lol. The good thing about it is it forces you to use a 5.13 gear + in the axles, which is easier on your driveshafts, yokes, U-joints, transfer case and tranny because they're not stressed as much since they are all working in redutction.

 

Durability is always going to be a concern with an auto. Not saying they can't be built but the cost and all the trouble of going through one would steer me away from one. One failure is going to be expensive and there probably would be little left to salvage.

 

I disagree personally. If 2000HP + Alcohol dragsters run autos, a truck making less 1/3rd that certainly can.

Most failures in automatics come from burned clutches/bands, or broken input shafts. Both are not that difficult to fix, especially in simpler 3 speed autos.

Ever seen a clutch explode on a manual? That's something where you're lucky to still have feet left let alone having any parts to salvage.

 

Yes I have used Edge personally. It's what was behind my 528 stroker and lived. In my case they actually had a guy that used to mud race so understands my needs and I think you will find they have a puller working there too IIRC (that one I don't know for sure) BUt even at that, they do know their stuff and they stand behind it. Even knowing it was for racing they warranty it for a year, AND if you send it in each year for refresh they will keep on warranting it for the next year. Last time I did it, cost $55 to refresh it.

 

if you dont mind me asking, whats a tc like yours end up costing? just curious

 

It's been a few years since I bought it so without trying to dig up the original reciept IIRC it was around $6-700. but remember it takes a lot more of a converter to handle 926hp and 850ft/lbs torque then it takes for a street converter.


Edit, just looked up Edge converters and they list the pro edge which is what I had for $675 so I was in the ballpark anyway.

http://www.edgeracingconverters.com/...ndex&cPath=1_5

 

Been running one from ATI in my mud bogger for over 5 years with no issues.

 

well, thought it over, and im gonna end up putting in a dual disk from either Ram or McLeod. so my drivetrain isnt going to be an issue. the block is just far enough wore to the point that i cant use std bore pistons, so it'll have to be machined. looks like its gonna end up being a 466. whats ur thoughts on some flat top pistons w/valve recess, stk truck rods with ARP bolts, and either stk or eagle cast 460 crank....