Hi Folks,

Long time lurker in the van section. I've had a 96 econoline conversion van for almost 20 years, and with over 225K on it. I am looking for a replacement. I am a Ford fan so the Expedition / Navigator are what I am searching for.

My criteria:

- post 2006 to get the 300hp engine, I know about the plug issue
- prefer the 2nd row buckets, we have a large dog that travels with us and she would fit there
- do some boat towing ( less than 5000#), so need a hitch and wiring
- prefer 4wd
- my wife is a bit of the "princess and the pea" and likes a smoother ride, does the Navigator ride better?
- looking at used vehicles, my first guess is around 100K miles and $15K price
- we will drive 10K miles a year, some family long distance trips

Any suggestions on what to look for? For example, I think starting in 2007 there is an aux input to the radio, when did bluetooth start? I heard there was a transmission upgrade - around 2009? Worth it? Do the vehicles with the tow package get more aggressive gears? Does that effect highway mileage much? (Our van get 15 and that range is fine). Any other options to look for or look out for?

Thanks again, I'm pretty handy and not afraid to turn a wrench. Looking for something to last another 100K miles and about 10 years.

Chuck

 

Hi CSchmidt:

I bought a loaded 2011 Navi about a year and half ago. 49K miles. We like it. I'll try to answer your questions in order.

I think your criteria are very good for picking one out. Main thing is will you get a Expedition or a Navi, and what will a good example cost.

Anything with the newer style plugs I think is a must. The plugs on my 2011 have tons of thread engagement to correct the pre-2006 issue. The only thing on the post 2006 is plugs breaking. If you can get a unit that has already had plugs changed, you are ahead. If not I would change them quickly. I changed all mine at 60K miles and managed to get them all out with no breaks. Put a small amount of anti-seize on new plugs and you will have avoided one of the major cost issues with these trucks.

We have the 2nd row buckets. This was one of my wife's main requirements. There are much easier for people to access the 3rd seats. No flipping up seats. My two kids or my in-laws can get back there easily. The third row seats in our Navi are more roomy and comfortable than the 2nd row buckets.

I have the full tow package. It includes an auxiliary cooler. Any Expi or Navi you look at that has a small auxiliary cooler in front of the radiator will most likely also have the Stage IV hitch and electrical connections in the back.

I don't have much experience with the Expi and can't compare rides. Out Navi has the rear air self-leveling suspension. I think many of the tow package upgraded trucks do. It works and rides great, until it breaks (mine hasn't yet). You may want to test drive both trucks and have a passenger sit in the 3rd row.

I bought a loaded, creampuff Navi (DVDs, everything) and paid $30K.

These things are great on trips. Put DVDs and you don't hear from my kids for hours. As far as mileage. We can get 22mpg on level highway driving. In town, it's less than 14, and more like 12 if it's hilly.

The Expi and Navi have slightly different transmission / transfer packages. The Expedition has a two speed low/high transfer case. The Navi is transfer case is single ratio, with a correspondingly lower first gear. Again, I don't know how the Expi drives, but our Lincoln shifts so smoothly you can barely feel it, after I changed the fluid an filter. I have the 3.73 higher rear gearing, I think because of the tow package. Power and accelerates smoothly and 22mpg on a level highway.

With basic maintenance these trucks last. Change oil every 5000 or less. Use Motorcraft filters and 5W-20 oil, and check that oil. I will sometimes use a quart between changes. I think some people run them low and that's when you start having cam phaser and other issues.

Our 2011 with Sync audio package has both aux input and Bluetooth connectivity. Both are nice to play music from phone or iPod on trips. The 2009 and later units have the 6R80 transmission which is stronger and less prone to issues than the 6R75 in 2007 and 2008.

My advice would be that the Expedition and Navi have different options (toys) that come with each. Try them both out and you or your wife will fall in love with one or more of those options, then get that one. Whichever model you decide, get one that's loaded, because if you take care of it, you will have it for a long time. Good Luck

 

Hi,
I had a '96 Ford E-150 Chateau van for 17 years. It took me a long time to decide between an Expedition or Navigator. I finally bought a 2007 Navigator Ultimate that had 33,000 miles and is so clean it looks much newer. It now has 80,000 and is still as clean (no kids anymore).

A Navigator is quieter and smoother than the Expedition. Notice my username? It is gwcloud - short for Great White Cloud. Our Navigator is the white chocolate. The seats on a Nvigator have nicer leather and padding than the Expedition. As an owner of a bad back I put a comfortable seat at the top of the list when I buy a car.

The THX navigation radio has a line input (no USB). This is a nicer radio than the same year Expedition . My grandson used to plug his cell phone/ipod to hear his music.
Mine has 2nd row bucket seats with counsel. I like the extra storage that the counsel has.

Mine is rear wheel drive without airbag shocks (no tow package). It will tow 6,000 lbs and has the 3.73 differential. I have driven to Seattle, Wa from So California 4 or 5 times. This 2,500 trip goes over several mountain ranges. Summer or winter at 70 mph, I do the math and calculate 18-20 mpg. The message center, like all cars, is optimistic and says 20-22.

I use Mobile 1 5w-30 and a mobile filter. What ever oil & filters you use I recommend keeping the oil very clean in your engine. Like PLCguy says the camphasers need to have clean oil.

I changed the spark plugs at 60,000 mi. I am a dyi guy and got then all out quicker than I thought. I did my homework prior to doing this due to what I read here in the forum. If you break a spark plug there is a kit ($60) to remove the broken plugs. Good instructions are on youtube to help if needed.

Either choice you make will work for your family. Buy the best condition vehicle you can find whether is a Navigator or an Expedition.
Good luck,
Richard

 

Great input from both of you, thanks! I'm leaning toward the navigator and still shopping. Thanks for the ideas on how to spot the towing package. I love the room in the van, and the dog does too, but I think it is time to go newer for better reliability in the future. There is rumor of a bonus coming in from work in Feb, I may wait and see if I can up my budget a bit. Onlne I saw a great looking '08 Navigator L, 3.73 gears, mid row buckets, 60K, for about $21K. It might be worth spending a few extra $ to get a newer / lower mileage truck.


Chuck

 

That sounds like a good deal. Especially if it is well optioned. I have the 4x4 L and the extended length in either the Expi or Navi is nice to have. If you leave the 3rd row seats up all the time like we do, with the EL/L you still have a large amount of cargo space. About similar to our Highlander with the 3rd row folded!. I think the L in the Navigator comes standard with the 3.73 gearing. Not sure about Expi.

When we were shopping, it seemed like the EL/L adds couple thousand in value to one of these trucks used, so figure that in to your decision.

 

From 2006-08 the Expedition and Navigator use different transmissions. If you go with one of these, I think the Navi has the better trans. From 2009 on they both use the 6R80 and I do think it's worth going for that over the 6R75 trans used in the 07-08 Expeditions. They do use different transfer cases though even in the 2009+ models. The Expedition has a beefier system geared more towards off-road use, though I think the Navi's is just fine for virtually everyone. I personally don't think the Expedition is well-suited to serious off-road use anyway.

The Navi and Expedition are very similar overall, but the seats in the Navi are quite a bit nicer than those in the Expy. Most (all?) Navi's also have the air ride so the ride is definitely going to be a little cushier. The downside is that the air ride will give out and the cost to repair it is usually considerable - so much so that many owners opt to switch to a traditional system once the air ride system fails.

Regarding the stereo comment above, I am almost certain the Navi headunit is identical to the unit used in the Limited trim Expeditions. The only difference to my knowledge is that the Navi unit uses a different "skin." In other words, the screen has a different color background, some different fonts, etc.

For me, I couldn't justify the extra cost for a Navi, but I based that decision on the price difference within my market (searched a 400-mile radius) at the time I purchased my '11 Expedition (about 2 years ago). At the time '08 Navi Ls were going for the same price as an '11 Expedition EL Limited and it was an extra $8K or so for an '11 Navi. If it was only $2-3K I would have gotten the Navi for sure.

 

We recently bought a 2004 Navigator for a similar usage to you. To me the 2004 is a bit of a sweet spot if you like the Navi, but want to keep your purchase price down (we paid $6k with 146k mi, in decent, though not "like new" shape)

Here's why
2003-2004 have 300hp DOHC, no plug issues, and I really haven't found any other known problems with this engine

2003-2004 get 4r100 transmission while expy got 4r75

2003-2006 still got 4 wheel air suspension that varies height based on use.. ours works properly and it's wonderful

2003-2006 navigator still get 4 mode 4x4 (2hi, awd, 4hi, 4lo), 2007+ Navi is AWD only.

Genuine wood trim on the interior.. feels pretty classy!

Food for thought.

 

Rumor has it the company is giving a bonus soon, so am holding out to see the amount. Then shopping time!

Chuck

 

Good news. The bonus showed up and was bigger than expected! I looked around and found a '13 Navigator L, 4wd, special edition, 70K in good shape for a good price. Picked it up last weekend and starting to get familiar with it. I'm sure there will be a lot of questions, I believe in preventative maint. (This is replacing a '96 e150 conversion van with 225K on it). Hope the pictures upload. Time for a round of fluid changes, plugs, and filters soon. Thanks again for the recommendations and help from the members here.

Chuck

 

Would like to hear your impressions after you drive it for a while. Looks like a sweet ride. Mine is black too, but the northeast winters are eating it up with rust and the infamous Ford bubbling paint is getting worse. Definitely recommend changing the plugs at 70 if they're original.

 

It has been a few weeks and about 1500 miles. I had a 600 mile trip back from picking it up. All positive so far, a few undisclosed issues but none serious.

This is replacing a '96 E150 conversion van with the 5.8L, and 225K miles.

The Navigator has a nice ride, handles better, will like the 4wd coming from a 2wd open axle. Drove in a heavy rainstorm on the highway and very stable.
Front seats are great, mid and back not as nice or roomy as the van.
Interior space feels smaller, mostly due to interior height and lack of room between front and second row seats. More cargo space in the back.

Mileage is slightly better. Got about 17 on the extended ride home, 15 round town. The van got 14-16. Acceleration seems about the same, not that much difference which is surprising.

The interior toys are great, the van was very basic. The backup camera shows the ball of the trailer hitch, huge help! The wife likes it, very comfortable. The dog not so much, she is the back cargo area for now and not right behind us. 8)

I'm happy so far.

Chuck

 

We've got several dogs so I pulled the middle row out to make room for them. As a bonus, my human passengers are way back in the third row so I don't have to listen to their screams as I tear around corners.

 

K9,

I did what you recommended, taking out the center console and then folding up the center seats. We just went on a trip from NC to Chicago and back with 3 of us and 2 dogs (1 German Shepard). This configuration worked well, and when we met my other daughter and her husband ( and dog) there was still room for all of us.

Comparison to travelling with the conversion van:

Both have good rides, front seats of the Navigator are better, mid and back not as good.
Interior room is much less on the Navigator
Navigator is much quieter, better sound system, easier to drive at 80mph. Much more direct steering that the van.
Mileage a wash. The van got 15 ish, the Navigator got 16 ish.

Glad we have the Navigator now. We are out of the soccer team era hauling piles of kids around. We may be taking more trips back to visit parents in the snow belt and having 4wd will be great.

The Navigator had about 70K on it when purchased and no maintenance records. I had the transmission fluid, transfer case, and rear end lube changed before the trip. Also an oil change to Mobil1. No problems seen driving it hard for 10+ hours each way. Now I'm off to planning some of the remaining maintenance:

- antifreeze
- brake fluid flush
- plugs and serpentine belt soon

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Chuck