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Cab Heater

  #16  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:07 PM
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What if you had thermostat that triggered the remote start/high idle, so when the engine water temp. drops below xxxF, the truck starts, runs at high idle for 15 min. and then shuts off, repeat...
I don't know if you would want to do this overnight, but when you are at work or out shopping...maybe?
 
  #17  
Old 11-23-2011, 12:02 AM
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I have researched the death out of this and here is what I found:

- The rapid heater parts cost over $3000 (not including install) after the fact, but maybe you can sell the orginal heater core plenum to someone. Its and 1800W heater. Don't know how well it works but my friend just bought a 350 and says it works ok on his truck. Dash does have to come out to install after the fact. Also, you need minimum the heavy duty alternator to run it. If I can find the parts used, I am going to do it.

- The Espar is unfortunately not a full solution for our trucks because of the dual coolant circuit. You either can heat the engine or the cab, but not both simultaenously, at least not well anyway. The coolant heater (Hydronic) will do the engine. You can get some radiant heat to the heater core but very little and certainly not enough to defrost the windows or heat the cab. The truck will have heat an order of magnitude faster upon startup however with this setup and combined with a 5-minute remote start warmup. Also important to note is that the vents go to neutral position when the truck is shut off so you can't get full vent flow even if you actuate the fans with a relay so they come on with the Espar. The Airtronic of course will heat the cab but will fail to do anything for the engine (not to mention cutting holes in the truck for the air ducting). Lastly, they all suck electricity and if you don't drive long distances to recharge your batteries, you might come out to a warm truck that won't start - this is the main reason I decided to hold off. They are also $3K installed.

- I SERIOUSLY looked into a 1500-2500W Hotstart circulating coolant heater (one with a magnetic drive pump) for $700 but because of the dual coolant circuit, it wouldn't work ideally (like the Espar). Also, I wasn't sure (and neither was Hotstart) how the mag drive pump would handle remote starting the truck while it was still running.

- I decided to go with a $70 120V Pyroil 900W cab heater (can buy at Canadian Tire) that I installed under the driver's dash. I tied it into a single plug-in with the block heater and run them both off an outdoor programmable timer. I increase the on-time as it gets colder. When really cold, I may run it all night. It definitely takes the chill out of the cab and also the steering wheel. Don't know yet if it will help defrost (suspect it will if I run it all night). During the day, we park at a train station with plug-ins so can keep it warm all day. The block heater combined with my 5-min remote start setting, typically gets me above 20 Celcius oil temp before I drive. As it gets colder, I will use the high idle mod possibly along with a grille cover to help warm-up. So, the chill is off when I come out in the morning and the block heater does a decent job of warming up the block/oil. I do regret not having the rapid heater because right now, I still have no warm air from the vents until the truck warms up, which sucks. With my setup its nowhere near as bad as it was, but still not ideal for the first bit of the drive on a cold day. With a rapid heater, that problem would be largely solved, especially with the 5-min remote start warmup. So my search continues for a used rapid heater setup. If someone knows where to find one let me know and I'll be the guinea pig. I have no issues with ripping my dash apart to put it in. That all being said, if my setup fails to give me the heat I am looking for and I cannot find a used rapid heater setup, I may try the Espar with the 10 or 15-min remote start, combined with high idle mod and take my chances on the batteries draining too much (I do have the dual alternators so can recharge a bit faster than the average truck can). A HUGE advantage with the espar hydronic though is that your engine will always be warm upon start and will never really see those cold engine temps so should actually pay for itself in engine longevity (I may have just talked myself into doing it anyway). This is even more important for people like me who do frequent short trips.

- I also considered using a 1000W inverter tied direct to battery with a second Pyroil 120V heater and a relay upon ignition but then it doesn't automatically start to shut itself down as the coolant temp rises so to me that is a totally mickey mouse setup and not something I was interested in. I would rather hold out and look for a rapid heater setup.

So there you have it. Questions?

JC
 
  #18  
Old 11-23-2011, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by thejean View Post
Don't know how well it works but my friend just bought a 350 and says it works ok on his truck.
I also think it works ok. I get heat when the temp gauge is still sitting on the 'C' mark, which is somewhere like 25C if I go into gauge test mode to see the number.

Originally Posted by thejean View Post
- I decided to go with a $70 120V Pyroil 900W cab heater (can buy at Canadian Tire) that I installed under the driver's dash. I tied it into a single plug-in with the block heater and run them both off an outdoor programmable timer.
Both running at the same time is coming pretty close to a 15 amp circuit limit there, 14.5A. Hopefully you're using a 12AWG or larger extension cord. If this is only a 15A circuit you can expect the feeder breaker to run warm as well. Make sure the contacts in the timer relay are also rated to handle interrupting that current otherwise you'll find them welded together.

Originally Posted by thejean View Post
- I also considered using a 1000W inverter tied direct to battery with a second Pyroil 120V heater and a relay upon ignition but then it doesn't automatically start to shut itself down as the coolant temp rises so to me that is a totally mickey mouse setup and not something I was interested in. I would rather hold out and look for a rapid heater setup.
Instead of using an inverter, just get a interior heater with the proper resistance value for running off 12V (also sold at Can Tire), because doing the voltage step up and oscillation for a purely resistive heating load that does not care at all about whether the power supply is AC or DC is going to be significantly less efficient. Heaters are 100% efficient already.
 
  #19  
Old 11-23-2011, 08:48 AM
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Never knew that about the DC/AC thing. Still, I'll have to manually switch the heater off which although not a huge deal, is nowhere near as clean as the stock rapid heater.

And I am indeed using a 12 awg extension cord and the timer is rated for 1800W.
 
  #20  
Old 11-24-2011, 01:27 PM
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I have the dealer looking into the rapid heater and maybe the Espar heater for it.

uscgmkcret03 - I'm having the Padded grill bar made up and installed. It'll have the snaps on the front, which I'm not thrilled about. Cost is about $200.00, installed.

My buddy put one on his 6.4 and it made a heck of difference. Of course his 05 6.4 grill lifts with the hood, so it's hidden and his grill still shows, looks nice. Mine will have to cover the grill up

They didn't have mine ready yet, so I'm hoping for Monday to get it done. At least it's warmed up to about -1 below, feels like a heat wave
 
  #21  
Old 11-24-2011, 07:06 PM
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Let me know what your dealer says about the rapid heater. I'd like to know if what they tell you is consistent with what my dealer told me.
 
  #22  
Old 12-01-2011, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by uscgmkcret03 View Post
Bearqst plz let me know how padded cover works, it attaches with the snaps like their other cover's ???, if you dont mind me asking how proud of it are they
The grill cover works as expected, it helps in keeping the cab warm and maintaining temps when driving short distances (15 miles to work).

So to solve my issues, so far I've gotten the padded grill cover from Ak Tent and Tarp for $135.00 (regular cover is $115.00) and $45.00 for install. The main thing to keep in mind is that the grill cover also covers the opening below the bumper. I've seen some that only covered the grill and those folks still had issue with the engine temp when driving. I can say that the cover has allowed me to actually turn the the heater fan down at temps of -10 below, first time I was able to do that. It is attached with snapon buttons for the main grill area and a couple of small bungie cords for the lower section below the bumper. We got a reprieve in the temps, lows to about -15, I'll have to wait until Jan or Feb (I hope) when we get our normal -40 below days to see if it still functions well.

Next I'm having the High Idle Mod added. Talked to a couple folks who have the same "cold when idling" issue and they said the High Idle Mod works for increasing heat out put when the rig is sitting at idle, such as at the grocery store or warm up. Service rep also recommended the high idle mod. Plus it also helps with Wet Stacking. More info on the high idle mod at https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...upfitters.html

My discussion on getting the Rapid Heater installed has been disappointing to say the least. The dealer isn't sure it can be done after the fact (after leaving the factory). Ford customer service was no help at all and a major disappointment. The two folks I talked to were more concerned about telling me hows mods could possible cancel out my warranty, and yes I did express a couple time that this was a Ford add on I was wanting. They still told me the concerns with warranty being canceled and suggested I talk to my dealer more. So I'm a bit miffed at Ford at the moment. The service rep can't find a Ford document on doing the Rapid Heater after the fact and Ford Customer service was more concerned about warranty cancellation than solving the issue and coming up with an alternative.

I'm getting the High Idle added next Wed and depending on how that works I may have to look at something like the Espar, although it will reduce my MPG and we all know how proud they are of diesel fuel these days.
 
  #23  
Old 12-01-2011, 01:01 PM
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I am not sure the Supplemental Heater can be added after the fact either, The larger alternator is required, and there is some interesting wiring from the main block to power it. This relay block may be a different part in vehicles without the heater installed.
 
  #24  
Old 12-01-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bearqst View Post
Next I'm having the High Idle Mod added. Talked to a couple folks who have the same "cold when idling" issue and they said the High Idle Mod works for increasing heat out put when the rig is sitting at idle, such as at the grocery store or warm up. Service rep also recommended the high idle mod. Plus it also helps with Wet Stacking.

I'm getting the High Idle added next Wed and depending on how that works I may have to look at something like the Espar, although it will reduce my MPG and we all know how proud they are of diesel fuel these days.
I'll be really interested to see if this does much. I let my truck run for 5-8 minutes a couple of days ago and checked the EGT temps when I got in, 198. I then upped the idle speed to 1500rpm for several minutes and only saw the egt's jump to 250 So just a fast idle doesn't provide much of an improvement in heat. But it probably does prevent the wet stacking.

Let us know what you see after you install the high idle.
 
  #25  
Old 12-07-2011, 08:13 PM
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When i last inquired, there was a extra wiring harness required for the rapid heater. I think if I can find one I will definitely try it.

Did they give you any info at all on the cost of the parts? I got two different answers from the same dealer at different times. One said the parts were $3k not including labour and another time they said the parts were cheap but the labour would be $3k. Frankly, I dont think they have a bloody clue!
 
  #26  
Old 12-07-2011, 08:15 PM
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Oh, I also had the Ford Parts Guy on here looking into it and then he went silent as well. Clearly a few of us would do it if someone who has some access to documentation could look into with an ounce of real effort.
 
  #27  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thejean View Post
I have researched the death out of this and here is what I found:

-

- The Espar is unfortunately not a full solution for our trucks because of the dual coolant circuit. You either can heat the engine or the cab, but not both simultaenously, at least not well anyway. The coolant heater (Hydronic) will do the engine. You can get some radiant heat to the heater core but very little and certainly not enough to defrost the windows or heat the cab. The truck will have heat an order of magnitude faster upon startup however with this setup and combined with a 5-minute remote start warmup. Also important to note is that the vents go to neutral position when the truck is shut off so you can't get full vent flow even if you actuate the fans with a relay so they come on with the Espar.

JC
I had a hydronic unit in my 7.3 and it heated the cab just fine. The coolant diagram shows the heater core attached to the primary coolant system as one would logically expect. Mine would turn the heater fan on low when the hydonic started up and coolant is circulated thru the heater core. Is there a reason to suspect it would function differently with this engine? You are right about the battery - if you are doing short trips you will suck the battery dry in short order unless you have a trickle charger hooked up.
 
  #28  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:48 PM
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Didn't you read these threads regarding the supplement heater?

Was like $125 during my factory order




Originally Posted by lkbrow1 View Post
I am not sure the Supplemental Heater can be added after the fact either, The larger alternator is required, and there is some interesting wiring from the main block to power it. .
 
  #29  
Old 12-07-2011, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKid1 View Post
Didn't you read these threads regarding the supplement heater?

Was like $125 during my factory order
Didn't even know about this forum until well after I bought my truck. And, I bought mine off the lot and dealer never mentioned anything about a supp heater option.

I went to the dealer on my way home and the guy wasn't busy so we poured over the parts diagrams. The parts total well over $2000 for sure. It also requires a HVAC control module reprogram. They also confirmed that because this isn't a "kit" that it would indeed void the warranty. Seems pretty stupid if you ask me. BUT, if you could get the parts from a truck with it (including the HVAC control module), I can't see how they would ever know it had been done.
 
  #30  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:47 PM
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Man it was cold in that bloody truck this morning. My little girl was freezing in her car seat. I need to find a better solution... or, leave my 900W heater on all night.
 

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