Ricks fuel pump analysis
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2011
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Oh, they get taken apart... by Bosch, who then sells it back to Ford as a remanufactured unit, at $1400. Core charge $100... pretty much tells you they engineered it for failure and that everything needs to be replaced inside the whole pump.
I am certain Bosch has seen enough of these to know what failure looks like, they've seen enough of them already from VW Touareg's and Audi Q7's to satisfy their sample size for types of "contamination". It will be interesting to see how many failures show up on the boards between now and December of 2012, as more miles get racked up.
I am certain Bosch has seen enough of these to know what failure looks like, they've seen enough of them already from VW Touareg's and Audi Q7's to satisfy their sample size for types of "contamination". It will be interesting to see how many failures show up on the boards between now and December of 2012, as more miles get racked up.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2011
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One of my neighbors, who works as a parts manager for VW, told me this week that VW has gotten "smart" now, and they "kit" a whole repair kit on a pallet now in West Germany, with all the parts needed to do a HPFP change out. HPFP, injectors, rails, 2 new fuel pumps, new tank, everything. Now the pallet with all the parts just shows up at the dealership. He said that it's been going on for a few months now.
Some folks should check up on Ford and see if they are "kitting" whole HPFP failure parts yet.
Some folks should check up on Ford and see if they are "kitting" whole HPFP failure parts yet.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Upstate, NY
you guys know you don't have to post the word "subscribed" to subscribe, right?
At the top of every thread click on "Thread Tools" and then "Subscribe to this thread" Less clutter in the thread that way.
At the top of every thread click on "Thread Tools" and then "Subscribe to this thread" Less clutter in the thread that way.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2009
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Sorry if this isnt relevant but as far as bad parts go. I had my 6.7 3 months with 7500 miles on it. Was on a down grade on a gravel drive. Started to spin my rear tires so I put it in 4wheel from a dead stop. Started to apply gas and heard the most horrible sound ever. My front drive shaft snapped in half. Literally hanging on the ground. Had it towed to dealer and simple cause was a defective part from the factory. Covered under warranty ford was great all the way through. the dealer said sometimes parts just fail for no other reason other then they are faulty at the time they are installed at the factory.
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,402
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From: Upstate, NY
Sorry if this isnt relevant but as far as bad parts go. I had my 6.7 3 months with 7500 miles on it. Was on a down grade on a gravel drive. Started to spin my rear tires so I put it in 4wheel from a dead stop. Started to apply gas and heard the most horrible sound ever. My front drive shaft snapped in half. Literally hanging on the ground. Had it towed to dealer and simple cause was a defective part from the factory. Covered under warranty ford was great all the way through. the dealer said sometimes parts just fail for no other reason other then they are faulty at the time they are installed at the factory.
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 508
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From: Texas Hill Country
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,220
Likes: 62
With all the problems around this one failure it still surprises me that the manufacturer did not just fix the problem and get the pump back to send off to engineering for a failure cause.
I did 18 years in new car dealers and when we had seemingly small failure rates for parts they always got fixed and sent back. On occasion we were even notified of what the failure was (we had a really good to work with factory rep)
I did 18 years in new car dealers and when we had seemingly small failure rates for parts they always got fixed and sent back. On occasion we were even notified of what the failure was (we had a really good to work with factory rep)
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2011
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Now people that run their own business and have a vested interest in a truck down being considered lost time = lost money, is another matter completely.
This place is a drop in the bucket... how many people hang out and post on the 6.7 board, out of 400,000 out there. Yeah... mouse nuts, nuthin, statistically.
Add all those $10,000 a whack failed pumps up for Ford, please, and now it's significant income, and not chump change. I bet the dealers make more on a failed HPFP, profit wise, than they do the sale of the truck. The truck sale is a loss leader, the repairs out of warranty and parts, are the cash cows.
Jäger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 5
From: Northern Arizona
I did a Google search using 'Ford HPFP failure' and most of the Ford hits were related to Rick's incident posted on FTE and other websites including GM, VW and BMW.
I also found the following and feel that it has some relevant information and insight regarding this issue: CR High Pressure Fuel Pump "HPFP" failure FAQ - Updated 2/8/2011 - TDIClub Forums
I also found the following and feel that it has some relevant information and insight regarding this issue: CR High Pressure Fuel Pump "HPFP" failure FAQ - Updated 2/8/2011 - TDIClub Forums
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 142
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I can guarantee that Ford and Bosch have had some heated discussions on the subject matter of who's paying for it, after knowing Fords history with Navistar. History repeats itself, Fords stock and dividends have been nothing to write home about for the past 5 or 6 years. That says a lot about how they run their business.
And now that Ford gets to participate in the NHTSA investigation... I'd say within 6 to 8 months, we'll know a bit more how severe the numbers are, if folks around here start filing regularly with NHTSA for failed HPFP'S. Even then, I doubt every one that loses a HPFP is going to file a complaint. Maybe by April or May of 2012, we get a report.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 142
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Perhaps if folks watch this video of what springs can do with rotation of valve trains, even with solid cam followers, whether at redline or half that speed, or fractional variations there of, they might understand why a piston in a bore with no alignment design is a design with epic proportions of failure built in to it.
Keep in mind, it's how close the spring is to it's maximum designed rpm to prevent float that is important, it's all to scale. The spring can turn both ways, based on rpm's and harmonics.
Overhead Cam at 14K RPM - YouTube
The same stuff is most likely is happening in Bosch CP 4.x HPFP's. That is why I feel the design is flawed by Bosch. It's why Delphi feels the design is flawed too, and patented a keyway bore on their Delphi DFP6 HPFP.
Keep in mind, it's how close the spring is to it's maximum designed rpm to prevent float that is important, it's all to scale. The spring can turn both ways, based on rpm's and harmonics.
Overhead Cam at 14K RPM - YouTube
The same stuff is most likely is happening in Bosch CP 4.x HPFP's. That is why I feel the design is flawed by Bosch. It's why Delphi feels the design is flawed too, and patented a keyway bore on their Delphi DFP6 HPFP.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Sorry if this isnt relevant but as far as bad parts go. I had my 6.7 3 months with 7500 miles on it. Was on a down grade on a gravel drive. Started to spin my rear tires so I put it in 4wheel from a dead stop. Started to apply gas and heard the most horrible sound ever. My front drive shaft snapped in half. Literally hanging on the ground. Had it towed to dealer and simple cause was a defective part from the factory. Covered under warranty ford was great all the way through. the dealer said sometimes parts just fail for no other reason other then they are faulty at the time they are installed at the factory.
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
My only point is sometimes mechanical parts just fail. Maybe this pump just failed. Again sorry if this doesnt add to the thread. Ive been lurking here enjoying all the info.
Sorry for the trouble Rick.
STM
But your problem was covered.
Rick's pump wasn't. Also, Ford has been doing things related to this that are distressing. About a year ago, Paul posted a memo from Ford about Fuel contamination and warranty denials. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-warranty.html
Just recently another memo from Ford to the dealers about how to make sure they don't do any repairs on 6.7 fuel systems that Ford won't reimburse them for.
Ford also has maintenence requirements that the other brands do not.
Such as draining the water seperator monthly, and highly recommending that their additive be used.
Add it all up and..... It appears that Ford knows they have a problem, and....
Some people are getting a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that they may have made a very exspensive mistake.
Tuned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 375
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From: CO Mnts
