Not sure what you mean by "fulcrum" here, but it seems to me that those that are driving a lot more, especially professionally, should be more experienced. They therefore could reasonably be expected to be better drivers, having fewer accidents, fewer citations, and fewer "points" amassed.

I don't see the need to cut any "slack", based on more miles driven, if that's the intent of your "fulcrum".

I suspect the guv'ment feels the same way, as they assess DOUBLE points to commercial drivers for the same infractions.

Pop

 

I believe you will need a class A for anything over 10,000. The class B only lets a person drive a heavier vechicle. Any time you add a trailer over 10,000 you get into class A. Thats the way I read it.

 

I recently got my CA Restriction 41 endorsement for 5th wheel trailers between 10000 and 15000 lbs. I took the 20 question Recreational Vehicles And Noncommercial Class A Trailers written test at the DMV for free, as per CVC 12804.9b3Fii. You need to know about things such as safety chains, offtracking, downhill braking technique, balancing cargo weight, fishtailing, transporting passengers, fire extinguishers, rear view mirrors, exhaust gases, backing, checking tire pressure, escape ramps, lanes you're not allowed to use on a highway, how many trailers you're allowed to tow, and health questionnaires even though they're not required. There is also another post on the rv.net forum.

(On a side note, I also have a M2 moped license.)

 

Trey,
The requirement is the same whether it is tongue tow or 5th wheel, it is strictly a weight thing. I am in law enforcement and deal with this, I also have CHP friends that have personal use tongue tow dump trailers rated over 10,000 and they have had to get the same endorsement.

 

So Mark, how about posting the 20 questions. Like to see what they ask.

 

Wow, an oldie has been resurrected!

My coach weighs 50,000 lbs and I know lots of geezers (people my age and older) with the same coach. These are not the staple & stick coaches that blow apart in an accident. These are complete steel hulks which will go through an F350 like it wasn't there . Through talking over a cold one with these fellow geezers, I have discovered that they largely have no idea at all as to how air brakes work, how to adjust slack-adjusters, and they love to blast down the road at 80 mph. I'm 65+ now, over a million miles of commercial driving with no tickets or accidents and it scares the hell out of me. If you knew what I know, you would be scared too!

 

This post is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of the utter confusion, and individualized interpretation, even amidst California Law Enforcement Officers, even YEARS after the law came into effect, concerning the endorsement to the Class C driver's license to permit towing a 5th wheel (not a "tongue" tag or bumper pull) recreational trailer greater than 10,000 lbs. but not to exceed 15,000 lbs.

 

You are correct, I was wrong on the 5th wheel designation, but the weight limits apply to all other trailers. Here are to items from CA DMV's website.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/lic_chart.htm
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5.htm

 

My post wasn't about me or you being right or wrong. It is about the lack of knowledge of, and more importantly, the widely varying interpretations of, the relevant regulation by the officers who have the authority to enforce it. I have called CHP station houses, scale houses, commercial supervisors, up and down this state, and no one provided the same answer. I already read and knew, before I called them, what was written. I didn't argue with them. What I was interested in was what they believed the law to be, because it is their beliefs, not what is actually written, that motivate them to flip that take down switch.

Your earlier post indicated that CHP officers are obtaining the RV 5th wheel endorsement on their Class C licenses in order to "lawfully" tow bumper pull tandem axle dump trailers over 10K. That's quite a bit of stretch. Most police and firemen I know who are running dump trailers that heavy are also running side businesses doing property clean ups of the emergency calls they responded to the previous week. But even if the dump trailers are just for personal use, are they considered RVs? And, are they 5th wheels? Yet the guy towing his race car is considered "commercial" because there was a token amount of prize money doled out that he didn't even win, and it cost him $3,000 our of pocket just to show up and "recreate" on that track?

No, please don't take my earlier post personal, or that I was trolling to be "right." I wish I was wrong instead. My pounce on this post has more to do with the issues I have with the states inconsistent and under educated understanding of trailering.

For example, what about goosenecks? What about the horse trailering community? NOT the ag/farmer business community which has their own lobbying agency hammering on these problems still. But I'm talking about the recreational horse community. The horse hobbyist who has a nice Sooner or Exciss or Featherlite living quarter's gooseneck, who wants to hit the trail with her girlfriends for a weekend ride?

Which LEO is she going to encounter along the way, and what is his/her interpretation going to be that day?

I think the law and the DMV regulation is very poorly written. I have found inconsistencies in the definition chapters of the codified portions of law that support the regulation. Different chapters describe recreational, fifth wheel, etc using different terms that can legitimately be interpreted in different ways. No wonder LEOs are confused. And to appear authoritative in front of their suspect, that is the last thing they want to look like. Confused. So they decide what the law is, and then we have to go to court and hammer it all out. Only to still find ambiguity.

 

I am not taking it personal and am in complete agreement with most of what you said. I have been a hot rodder for 30+ years and have been the subject of what you said several times. Some cops (like other as well) act like they have something to prove and have to be right all the time. I am not that person, if I can't back it up with case or codified law, I don't do it, e.g. write the cite. After all I am the one that has to go to court and argue the merits of the cite if questioned and I am one that takes pride in my reputation. My main concern is safety, not generating revenue, and thankfully my agency takes that stance as well.

It sounds like you have done your research and I can only suggest anybody who plans on doing anything other than driving their standard car down the road do the same. If a person knows their stuff it can be presented to an officer, if needed, in a manner that opens discussion, but as stated by several other senior members on here a lot of people don't have a clue what they are doing or what the laws are concerning their activity.

 

Thanks for your comments.
You can take the (written) test at any CA DMV that deals with driver licensing for $0, which is almost all of the DMVs.

On the back of my (newer style) CA license it says:
CLASS: Class C-Veh w/GVWR <26000; No A
RESTRICTIONS: 41-Class A restricted to operating 5th wheel travel trailer between 10,000 and 15,000 lbs GVWR

 

That is for a non commercial over 15,000 lbs.

 

Mike, just so you know (and I don't care, it's good for conversation on the forum ) but you quoted and responded to a post that's 8 years old and the CVC may have changed in that time, just FYI!

Stewart

 

CA loves to make things difficult and I think people get the 5th wheel recreational trailer endorsement and the non-commercial Class A license confused sometimes.

Class C let's you tow anything up to 10K lbs. The 5th wheel endorsement let's you go up to 15K llbs for a 5er. The Non-Commercial Class A let's you tow anything over 15K lbs (not for hire).

Here are the requirements:

5th wheel recreational trailer ENDORSEMENT: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1...dl648/dl648pt5

Non-Commercial Class A PERMIT: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...ncomm_a_permit

Non-Commercial Class A LICENSE: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1...dl648/dl648pt3

 

THIS LINK DOES NOT WORK, AT LEAST FOR ME IT DIDN'T.