E4OD vs. ZF5 Speed
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
E4OD vs. ZF5 Speed
I am currently building up my truck now that i have the money. I am debating on using the current E4OD transmission i have n there now or going to a ZF5 Speed manual transmission. Would this swap be doable and is it worth the time and money and effort.
Need the transmission to handle over 400 tq but no more than 400 hp as this is very rare in these motors from what i see. Building it up to be a DD that is bad ***.
Any suggestions, comments, etc would help me with this decision. I have a 1995 f150 XLT 2WD OBD1
Need the transmission to handle over 400 tq but no more than 400 hp as this is very rare in these motors from what i see. Building it up to be a DD that is bad ***.
Any suggestions, comments, etc would help me with this decision. I have a 1995 f150 XLT 2WD OBD1
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
The E4OD is known for having its share of problems, and then being exceptionally expensive to rebuild.
The ZF-5 is an incredibly robust transmission that can handle a lot of power. There's the 42 and the 47 versions. (Multiply the number by 10 to get how much torque it's designed to handle).
Someone over on FullSizeBronco.com is doing a very thorough thread of converting from an E4OD to a ZF5.
zf 5 speed conversion - FSB Forums
I'd recommend checking it out to see if it's something you want to tackle.
If not, the money would be well spent on beefing the E4OD up and taking care of the problem areas before they go bad.
The ZF-5 is an incredibly robust transmission that can handle a lot of power. There's the 42 and the 47 versions. (Multiply the number by 10 to get how much torque it's designed to handle).
Someone over on FullSizeBronco.com is doing a very thorough thread of converting from an E4OD to a ZF5.
zf 5 speed conversion - FSB Forums
I'd recommend checking it out to see if it's something you want to tackle.
If not, the money would be well spent on beefing the E4OD up and taking care of the problem areas before they go bad.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
So over all would you recommend me keeping the E4OD or should i switch to the ZF5.
With the manual isnt it more efficient on torque and i actually gain a little that is lost in the drivetrain with the automatic...?
If so could i build up the E4OD to be overall better than the ZF5?
Or is there even a 6 speed that was made for the 351 or 302 that i could bolt up?
With the manual isnt it more efficient on torque and i actually gain a little that is lost in the drivetrain with the automatic...?
If so could i build up the E4OD to be overall better than the ZF5?
Or is there even a 6 speed that was made for the 351 or 302 that i could bolt up?
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Yeah, except with newer transmissions, you're almost always going to get better economy with a manual, simply because it's a direct solid connection between the engine and the tires.
If you're going to either beef up the E4OD or swap to a ZF5, I think it comes down to whether or not you prefer manuals or automatics. Both are going to take some money and work.
I know if it was me, I'd go with the ZF5, simply because I prefer manuals to autos any day of the week, but that's my preference. The other benefit is the ZF5 has a granny gear, whereas the E4OD doesn't.
5 speeds are as good as it gets when it comes to the small blocks. The 6 speeds are for their newer engines.
If you're going to either beef up the E4OD or swap to a ZF5, I think it comes down to whether or not you prefer manuals or automatics. Both are going to take some money and work.
I know if it was me, I'd go with the ZF5, simply because I prefer manuals to autos any day of the week, but that's my preference. The other benefit is the ZF5 has a granny gear, whereas the E4OD doesn't.
5 speeds are as good as it gets when it comes to the small blocks. The 6 speeds are for their newer engines.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
So to do the swap you'll need at least:
A rebuilt ZF (maybe you get lucky with a jy find, but if you have the tranny out of the truck you might as well have it looked over)
Crossmember + mount.
Possibly shortening/lengthening the driveshaft.
Clutch master + pedal + hose + drilling the firewall.
New clutch set.
New EEC (the E4OD one you've got now won't work with a manual tranny).
Tranny hump/boot/shifter from 5 speed donor vehicle, which means pulling the seats/carpet out of your truck.
I'd say depending on what you pay for the tranny you're looking at $2,000.
Now when you say built to be bad ***, how bad are you talking? Are you going to scrap the EFI?
The ZF is great at what it was built for but I'm not sure there's much advantage to swapping what you've got. Surely you can find a worked E4OD for $2,000. Another thing to keep in mind is you won't be banging through the gears with a ZF. It has long throws and shifts like a dump truck. If the goal is street performance vs. towing you'd be better off with a Tremec 5 speed.
A rebuilt ZF (maybe you get lucky with a jy find, but if you have the tranny out of the truck you might as well have it looked over)
Crossmember + mount.
Possibly shortening/lengthening the driveshaft.
Clutch master + pedal + hose + drilling the firewall.
New clutch set.
New EEC (the E4OD one you've got now won't work with a manual tranny).
Tranny hump/boot/shifter from 5 speed donor vehicle, which means pulling the seats/carpet out of your truck.
I'd say depending on what you pay for the tranny you're looking at $2,000.
Now when you say built to be bad ***, how bad are you talking? Are you going to scrap the EFI?
The ZF is great at what it was built for but I'm not sure there's much advantage to swapping what you've got. Surely you can find a worked E4OD for $2,000. Another thing to keep in mind is you won't be banging through the gears with a ZF. It has long throws and shifts like a dump truck. If the goal is street performance vs. towing you'd be better off with a Tremec 5 speed.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,843
Likes: 27
From: Eastern Ky
I vote for the E4OD....Simply, for less hassle...A simple shift Improver Kit from B & M...And yer set.....
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Bad *** as in i want to push 450 plus tq. Horse power will come but i want the tq more than the horses. I am looking for something that will keep the motor in an rpm range for a descent time but not to long. I am looking for a peak performance at most of 3500 rpm. Which not sure how the duration within the tranny works. I have never worked or rebuilt one.
I have never heard of the Tremec 5 speed. What did they come in? this motor is going to be in a 1995 f150 so i cant use anything that will become a custom shrap metal bomb
.
Also, sidewinder, is there a way to change the shift points of the E4OD once i do the mods i am doing to get peak performance?
I have never heard of the Tremec 5 speed. What did they come in? this motor is going to be in a 1995 f150 so i cant use anything that will become a custom shrap metal bomb
. Also, sidewinder, is there a way to change the shift points of the E4OD once i do the mods i am doing to get peak performance?
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
The Tremec TKO500 will handle 500 lb/ft vs. the ZF's 420-450 lb/ft, so it shouldn't grenade unless you're pretty determined. It came in Cobra Mustangs but will fit just about anything with a new bell. If you're planning on street rodding you'd be much happier vs. the ZF.
I don't think it's possible to make 450 lb/ft without forced induction. At a 3,500 peak there should be some computer friendly cams out there. If you do need to have the EEC tuned they *should* be able to reprogram the tranny shift points as well.
The E4OD is supposed to be pretty beefy. With a little work it ought to hold up fine. I'd check with some performance shops to see what they can do with it before you commit to a ZF. Save the extra money you'd spend doing a swap for a TrueTrac in the rear end.
And correct me if I'm wrong but with the torque converter I thought you got more torque?
I don't think it's possible to make 450 lb/ft without forced induction. At a 3,500 peak there should be some computer friendly cams out there. If you do need to have the EEC tuned they *should* be able to reprogram the tranny shift points as well.
The E4OD is supposed to be pretty beefy. With a little work it ought to hold up fine. I'd check with some performance shops to see what they can do with it before you commit to a ZF. Save the extra money you'd spend doing a swap for a TrueTrac in the rear end.
And correct me if I'm wrong but with the torque converter I thought you got more torque?
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
Tremecs are pricey... And hard to find in junkyards. You'll more then likely have to buy it from someone selling it on like criaglist or something. Which means $$$...
Im just trying to understand this alittle bit more because i have thought about doing this swap and cant really justify it for myself.
What is the goal of this truck? Like stated above with the zf you'll have a strong tranny but your not going to be able to bang gears like a short throw street car. So if your looking at 1/4 mile times, i would think the e40d with the shift kit would probably yield better times. I personally like shifting, makes you feel like your really driving, so if i had the resources i would probably convert to the manual. Good luck either way, I think its cool your building a big 6, not enough of that going on.
BTW if you do convert to the manual you'll be able to drop the clutch on 400+tq from your 4.9. That will be a cool feeling. I doubt an auto will make you feel that good.
Im just trying to understand this alittle bit more because i have thought about doing this swap and cant really justify it for myself.
What is the goal of this truck? Like stated above with the zf you'll have a strong tranny but your not going to be able to bang gears like a short throw street car. So if your looking at 1/4 mile times, i would think the e40d with the shift kit would probably yield better times. I personally like shifting, makes you feel like your really driving, so if i had the resources i would probably convert to the manual. Good luck either way, I think its cool your building a big 6, not enough of that going on.
BTW if you do convert to the manual you'll be able to drop the clutch on 400+tq from your 4.9. That will be a cool feeling. I doubt an auto will make you feel that good.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Goal is to just have something different. I always see these v8's rolling up next to me and usually i can keep up to 60 or so than they fly by. So my goal is to smoke them to about 120 or so maybe a little faster.
I am currently in college and I have a lot of time on my hands and have a bike i can ride up to the school while the truck is out of service.
This will be my first full Inline 6 build. I have built up a 1971 chevelle with my Dad and it was fast as hell.
With the transmission swap I was looking for that feeling when i drop the clutch in all honesty.
But all in all I am pretty sure if i would drop that much power i would need a rear end swap and a bigger drive shaft in order to push that much instant power through the drive train as well.
I'll do a write up of my plans and all the specs, I'll put a link in here once i am done for any suggestions, comments, or revisions.
I am currently in college and I have a lot of time on my hands and have a bike i can ride up to the school while the truck is out of service.
This will be my first full Inline 6 build. I have built up a 1971 chevelle with my Dad and it was fast as hell.
With the transmission swap I was looking for that feeling when i drop the clutch in all honesty.
But all in all I am pretty sure if i would drop that much power i would need a rear end swap and a bigger drive shaft in order to push that much instant power through the drive train as well.
I'll do a write up of my plans and all the specs, I'll put a link in here once i am done for any suggestions, comments, or revisions.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 386
Likes: 3
From: Whitmore lake Mi
If you want to go auto electric shift and push what hp/tq you say I think you will need to spend some money.
Grab some munchies and a beverage and do some research here... http://www.tciauto.com/ you will find all of the info you need. You could dig around the junk yards and ebay/craigs list and piece together what you need to save some dough or just call them and get what you need.
HTH
Jim
Grab some munchies and a beverage and do some research here... http://www.tciauto.com/ you will find all of the info you need. You could dig around the junk yards and ebay/craigs list and piece together what you need to save some dough or just call them and get what you need.
HTH
Jim
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Here is the build i was talking about. If you have any suggestion still on the transmission just post them there so i can keep the thread down to one and not switch back and forth.
If you also have any other suggestions on the build please let me know...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10910942
If you also have any other suggestions on the build please let me know...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10910942
New User
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I would stick with the manual trans
I have never been impressed with fords automatic transmissions. The only complaint I have about the XF 5spd is that reverse is to tall of a gear. If I ever have to rebuild mine, I will see if there is a lower reverse gear. Just my 2 pennies.
Adam
Adam