Hey guys...

2004 2WD Lariat 156,000 miles - no mods - bulletproof EGR and oil coolers - full tank of diesel from high volume station

Let me say first of all that this forum has been invaluable to me. I have read and read and soaked in the info. I've owned this truck about 10 months. Most impressed by the lack of bad attitudes more commonly found on other forums.

Today the truck was running and then slowly lost power (10 - 15 seconds) from about 40 MPH and died. No start now. Cranking and turning over just fine. No strange sounds. The stock oil pressure gauge kicks up while cranking. I disconnected the ICP sensor (replaced it about 1 month ago) to insure it wasn't causing the issue. My Scanguage II shows no codes. About 4 months ago the local dealer diagnosed left bank injectors are bad, but truck has been solid until today.

My first thought was the cam position sensor. When I am cranking (new batts and alternator about 2 weeks ago) there are no RPMs displayed on the stock guage. It seems to me that I read somewhere that there should be RPMs showing, and if not, possible bad crank sensor?

Any input appreciated.

Alan from LA (Lower Alabama)

 

So, you have read the below link?

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ml#post7807959

Also, what other gauges do you have in your Scangauge II for Xgauges?

 

Yes I have, great stuff from the always logical Bismic. Mainly curious if I should be seeing RPMs while the starter is turning.

Pretty much every gauge you have posted that works for my truck. FICM, ICP, etc.

 

so what do you see for ICP during crank

 

ICP shows 4 which I thought was pretty bad, but I've never watched that gauge during cranking. That's normally greater than 600 or so while idling. I know the computer needs 500 psi to crank. RPMs show up on Scanguage but not on dash gauge so I think that rules out the crank pos sensor.

 

of course you will need to perform some basic diagnostics here, but when my truck did the same thing... it was the HPOP. Unplugging the ICP will "trick" the computer into thinking there is enough high pressure oil, but if it really isn't there, no fire on the injectors. BTW, my tach doesn't move while cranking either.

 

I wonder if the ball bearing fell out of the HPOP?

 

All indicators point to the HPOP. Scnaguage reports 4 psi when cranking. My buddies truck immediately jumps to 500 when the starter is engaged. Maybe it's a coincidence but the last oil change was about 1000 miles ago and I switched to 5W-40 synthetic. I just read about the ball bearing issue in another thread, but I have a feeling the o-rings didn't like the new oil after running on dino oil for over 150,000 miles. It's like cheezit says, "If it ain't broke don't go around fixin it." Live and learn.

I'm going to start on it tomorrow and should be able to get to the HPOP pretty quickly. I just installed a Bulletproof oil and EGR cooler on the truck about 3 months ago.

If someone could help me with PN's I would be much appreciative. Should I replace the pump or just replace o-rings and gaskets? I know I read one time that it's truly rare for the actual pump to break. I've been reading threads but really can't get a feel for the actual pump repair or replacement.

As usual, need to get 'er up and running quickly to haul pig parts around the southeast...

 

At this point I'm feeling pretty dense. I've been looking over Mark's spreadsheet on every conceivable topic, and reading threads, but it's just deepening my uncertainty in how exactly to find the problem in the HPO system. I see mentions of dummy plugs, stand pipes, and manifolds. But no real detail on how to perform the "air test when hot" procedure. Of course, I can't make my engine hot since it won't run. Plus I see that 03 & 04's are prone to losing the ball bearing, but no real sense of where to look.

If someone could point me to a thread - I would be greatly appreciative.

 

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 710pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=947 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 710pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 33472" width=947><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 21.1pt" height=28><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 21.1pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl25 height=28 width=947 align=left>PROCEDURE TO PRESSURE CHECK THE HPO SYSTEM W/ SHOP AIR (100 psig)</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.6pt" height=18><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 13.6pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=18 width=947 align=left>See the video below starting about at 6:00 minutes.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.9pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 12.9pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl26 height=17 width=947 align=left>mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech_3_256klarge.wmv</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 95.1pt" height=127><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 95.1pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=127 width=947 align=left>How willing are you to remove the FICM, turbo, intake manifold, and the EGR cooler to get to the HPOP cover and HPOP itself for troubleshooting? Otherwise:

One way to diagnose for an HPOP leak without a teardown: Remove the ICP sensor --- use this hole to pressurize the HPO system with 100 psig air (05-07 the ICP is on the passenger side valve cover). You should use an M12x1.5 to a #4JIC fitting . You also need to have a way to send 12V power to the IPR, but only for 30 seconds or it will burn out. ALSO - be sure to remove the oil fill tube cap before applying shop air. This will prevent the possibility of overpressuring the crankcase.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.6pt" height=18><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 13.6pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=18 width=947></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 108.7pt" height=145><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 108.7pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=145 width=947 align=left>You should be able to remove the IPR harness without removing the turbo.

Remove the coolant reservoir and take the FICM and bracket off and remove the last intake bolt (and possibly the last valve cover bolt on the top edge) so you can get your hand back and unplug the IPR. Be VERY careful w/ the FICM connectors!

To command the valve - you can use an old ipr connector from an old harness wired to a cig. lighter plug and only keep it plugged in for 120 seconds (30 seconds is more desireable) not to damage the ipr. Try asking a tech at your local ford dealer, maybe one will be nice enough to snip one off a harness thats laying around. Red wire switched power Pin A B+; Yellow /red switched ground Pin B-.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.6pt" height=18><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 13.6pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=18 width=947></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 129.1pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=172><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 129.1pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=172 width=947 align=left>Remove the oil fill cap, remove the CCV hose that goes into the air intake from the other valve cover, take a piece of heater hose and listen in BOTH spots after applying shop air to the ICP fitting. It will take a minute to push the oil out of the oil rail before you are able to hear the air flow (note the air will flow because the IPR valve is still open). As soon as you hear the air flow, command the IPR valve to close (ONLY for 30 seconds). If you hear air coming from either one of the spots you are listening to, then it's probably a leak in one of the oil rails. If you hear air coming from BOTH sides it's probably the HPOP or STC fitting. Note - when the IPR is commanded closed, you should here a slight "POP" sound.
Also:
If IPR is at 80% while at hot idle, then you have high pressure oil leak, failed pump or a bad ipr valve.
IPR should be around 22-24% at hot idle; up to maybe 30% but that maybe a little too high.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.6pt" height=18><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 13.6pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=18 width=947></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 54.35pt" height=72><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00; WIDTH: 710pt; HEIGHT: 54.35pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class=xl24 height=72 width=947 align=left x:str="There is a hole that is situated just above the HPOP drive gear. If air is heard/felt exiting this hole when air testing, this is normal if IPR duty cycle is not commanded to 100% because that is the exhaust passage. The way to condemn a high pressure oil pump is to air test it with the turbo oil supply tube removed from the top of the oil cooler base. If air is heard/felt from this port during air testing, the high pressure oil pump is bad. ">There is a hole that is situated just above the HPOP drive gear. If air is heard/felt exiting this hole when air testing, this is normal if IPR duty cycle is not commanded to 100% because that is the exhaust passage. The way to condemn a high pressure oil pump is to air test it with the turbo oil supply tube removed from the top of the oil cooler base. If air is heard/felt from this port during air testing, the high pressure oil pump is bad. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

(From the spreadsheet)

 

Thanks Mark... I see it now... Spreadsheet is huge...

 

Update... Got into the engine and pulled the IPR valve. I had just updated the screen about 10,000 miles ago when I installed a new oil and EGR cooler. It has a hole in it the size of a pellet gun pellet. I thought that to be strange. The screen was not clogged though and I didn't find any evidence of trash.

I haven't done the air test yet, I've got to get an air fitting figured out and rig a way to cycle the valve.

I do need help figuring out how to remove the passenger side heat shield bolt on the back of the HPOP cover. I want to make sure the ball bearing is there before I do the arig up the air test components. I'm guessing I need to loosen the Y-pipe? Or will I have to comepletely remove it? Or is there a better way?

Thanks for the tach response embry1123. I figured that out after I saw the RPMs registering on my Scanguage and not on the dash.

Appreciate the help...

 

Got the HPOP cover off... Got the HPOP out. No ball bearing and I can't find it anywhere either... That's probably not good.

 

Can you post a pic of this? I'm just curious to see for myself. If the ball bearing is MIA, you can try draining the oil, and HOPE that it falls out during the draining. If not, you may end up having to "fish" for it through the drain plug hole, using a flexible magnet.

 

so the bb could go thru the IPR and drain to the oil pan??

have you ever found one in an injector before??