The only Slick I've ever fooled with was a '65 F100 short bed that belongs to a friend of mine. He had put front disc brakes on it from a '78 F150 and wanted me to install and plumb a manual tandem MC on his truck.



From '64-earlier, I'm not certain what the firewall bolt hole configuration is in the area around the MC (?). The horizontal mounting flange on the MC has (2) bolt holes that are on 3-3/16" centers.

On '65-'79 F100-F350 Ford trucks, there is another bolt (on each side) directly above the bolts that secures the (manual brake) MC to the firewall. This second set of bolts/holes will need to be 2-1/8" (vertically, center-to-center) above the MC mounting bolts. This bolt hole location would be required for mounting the OEM power brake booster brackets, from a Bumpside or Dentside, to attach the brackets/booster to the firewall of a Slick.

 

Tedster- can you expand on this a bit?

 

Essentially, I think what he's talking about is as long as the brake pedal doesn't bottom out against the floor in this situation, you know that you're getting the full stroke out of the MC.

If the pedal was to come in contact with the floor, you likely wouldn't get the full stroke from the MC and you would be limited in getting as much full force on the brakes as possible, if one side of the brake circuit failed and you only had the one remaining good circuit.

The following video illustrates the operation of a modern MC for disc brakes but, it works exactly the same as a conventional cast iron tandem MC for an all-wheel drum brake setup as well.

 

Yes, push rod length is critical, it can't be too long or too short, it must fully stroke or bottom out the master cylinder before the pedal hits the floor or firewall, check this before sealing everything up.

Otherwise it will not work as advertised! And you won't discover this till a failure occurs. I don't really have a problem with a meticulously maintained single pot system, but the emphasis is on maintained. Everybody forgets these old beasts need to be worked on and inspected and systems replaced. A dual master is definitely an upgrade, but how many peeps are still using 60 year old dry rotted brake hoses, corroded hard lines wheel cylinders?

 

This makes sense for a number of reasons. For one, it explains why I had zero brake pressure when one rear line failed on my '72 F100. Maybe it was all factory, maybe not. Maybe the brakes needed to be adjusted so I had more pedal travel - I hit the floor with the pedal before being able to pressurize the secondary output of the MC.

And it confirms what I'm continuing to learn, which is that if this is all in the name of safety, it's not anywhere as simple as it initially appears.

Thank you all for the continued, detailed discussion. This is great.

 

It's almost always an issue when swapping around non-standard brake components, but if going through the trouble to replace a single pot with a dual, make damn sure it's going to actually work. The H.A.M.B has some good discussions on this, if you poke around a bit in the archives.

"To see how it works, on a "normal" car, open one wheel bleeder to simulate a brake line failure, and apply the brakes. The pedal will go almost to the floor, but not quite, and it will activate the remaining side of the brakes. If you set up the pedal so that the cylinder does not have full travel, then in the above test the pedal will hit the floor and you won't stop.

One thing I have noticed working on old hot rods is that often the original single cylinder with a 1" stroke is replaced with a new dual cylinder with a 1.5" stroke. The pedal assy is left alone, so the pedal makes the m/c move with it's old 1" maximum of motion, leaving about 1/2" of available m/c stroke unused when the pedal hits the floor.

This is where problems occur...the dual cylinder needs at least 1.25" stroke to actually work when a brake line pops. So the dual cylinder conversion does no good at all.
Might as well have a single cylinder, as a dual without full travel."

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...er-help.83063/

 

Thanks for that link, I read through that whole thread and it was enlightening. On the other hand, I may in fact be no closer to a solution because I want to be certain I'm doing this right. I plan to discuss this with the guy who's working on my tailgate right now, he used to run a shop and now restores older Fords in his retirement. Older, like, Model T-era through maybe the late 40's. He's got several in various states of restoration, always improving.

 

So now this has me thinking, the part I want is one that has the same stroke length as a factory single MC. I have a factory single MC in my basement, it came with the truck - which tells you something right there - so I can tell what the stroke is on that.

Does anyone know what the maximum stroke length is that can be achieved from a factory '61 brake pedal setup?

Edit: I revisited an idea that someone posted a while back, on the full conversion kits sold by various places online. By the time I source the parts, potentially make modifications to the pedal and/or fabricate a bracket, I might be better off with a kit made to do exactly what I'm trying to do, even if it is $300. Because $300 is not really a lot to spend to keep myself and my kids safe, without spending 20 hours tinkering with this system trying to get it right. Here's what I'm looking at, specifically:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/...ck/4852BBD.htm

 

I don't see any problem with that sort of setup.
and like you said...brakes are not a place to cut corners.

 

After reading through this thread, I must say I am thoroughly confused. I just purchased a '64 2wd and I must admit I know nothing about a truck this old. Nor a newer one at that. I would like to go to disc,drum set-up. What is needed for such?

 

I admit, this thread is confusing in part because rather than starting a new thread on nearly the same topic, I replied to an old thread where I got a lot of information. So part way through it takes a turn but it's all related to how to convert from a single-reservoir master cylinder (what would have been OEM) to a dual-reservoir master cylinder, keeping all drum brakes in either case. It sounds simple to say it that way, but it turns out NOT to be simple, hence the continued discussion.

So to your question, what does the truck have now? Mostly stock, original stuff e.g. all drums? And do you want to have a booster, or dual master cylinder? That will help us point you in the right direction.

 

it would be even more confusing to try and answer your question in this thread. do a search, or start a new thread- this question is very popular.

 

Its all original right now, drum/drum. I don't see a front end swap in the near future, but want the safest set-up I can do.

 

If you're not planning on switching to discs, everything you need is in this thread.

if you are planning on switching to discs, you should probably start a new thread, as pre-65 trucks are different animals. (65 was the first year of the I-beam, which makes the front-end swap a bolt-in from later years.)

 

Questions...I have a 64 F250....I think the F250 single pot uses a 1-1/8" bore. Am I right? The manual dual Mustangs around 68 use a 1" bore....will this work on the 64 F250? Would it be a direct bolt up to the pedal and firewall?
Thanks,
Mike