While your on the subject what is the parameter that the EGTs is good for? When watching the ect/eot are we really concerned by the delta or the actual temps themselves? Ie if your ect is 185-190, and eot is 195-205 degs should I really be concerned with the 15 deg delta or just knowning that I'm in normal oil temp range I'm good to go?
Would it be safe to say that if your ect/eots are below alarm settings that very brief 1300 deg egts wouldn't be harmful?
Can we use egt and ect/eot temps to have a reasonable egr cooler temp?

 

With so many oil coolers plugging on the coolant side, Ford wanted an "indicator" of when this was getting to the stage that required action. They determined that it was a 15 degree delta between oil and coolant temp when driving at max load and boost, and AFTER the coolant temps got up to the normal value (and also after a number of other conditions are met that they do not publish). They also didn't mention towing. So - if I see a delta of 15 instantaneously during a "transient" operational period (towing on a slope, etc), I don't think I would worry about it TOO MUCH. I have heard more than one Ford Tech say that this 15 degree delta is a "guideline" anyway.

In my opinion, both the ECT/EOT delta and the actual oil temp value are important. As long as the oil temp is below say 230 (or even 240 or 245), then the oil system should still be protecting adequately. Would I want my oil temps to get that high?? Certainly NOT, but if they were and my delta EOT/ECT was over 15 degrees, then BOTH the EGR cooler and the oil cooler are most likely at risk, and IMO the stock EGR cooler is at the most risk of the two. There is really no way to check to see if the EGR cooler is getting adequate flow except by watching the ECT/EOT delta. This is an indicator ONLY because the coolant to the EGR cooler first flows through the oil cooler and then through the EGR cooler. If this flow is restricted, the oil temps will rise, but the equipment first stressed by this lack of coolant flow is the stock EGR cooler. Yes, the EGR system is designed to reduce the "flame temperature" in a combustion system, so this should theoretically mean cooler exhaust gasses, but IMO it would be hard to see the effect of reduced coolant flow to the EGR cooler in the EGTs. EGT's will go up and down a lot - making it harder to establish what is normal for your particular engine.

EGT's are important for Turbo protection and yes, they can also be helpful in monitoring the combustion system, once you establish the typical values during various modes of operation. IMO, 1300 pre-turbo EGT is starting to get high but is not an issue to worry about.

JMHO.

 

After my head gaskets are fixed,then ARP head studs will be installed on the rebuild. A BulletProof EGR Cooler will be installed along with a BulletProof Oil Cooler and remote Oil Filter as it is put back together. Also New Turbo will go on also, Factory Tech says it is what took out the HG. Stuck with carbon I guess. If I get a ScanGauge then I will be able to see the Oil/Coolant temps in real time along with the EGT Probe in the Exhaust. Maybe be able to keep everything cooler while driving.

 

Thanks bismic, you have that way of putting your info in a manner/words us normal guys can grasp what your relaying. Good info.

 

My head lifted on my old 03 on the way home from Yellowstone park and I live in Mesa, AZ I just took it easy on the hill and was able to nurse it home approximatly 1200 miles without a problem. Had to add water which my toy hauler had.

 

If your egr cooler is deleted then would a 20 degree spread be bad as long as oil was 235or less? Obviously the oil is getting in the hot range but there's no egr cooler to ruin.

Would you mainly just be concerned about popping the oil cooler in this case?

 

I have argued that the delta wouldn't matter anymore w/ an EGR delete (or even w/ a bulletproof EGR cooler). Just as you said, I believe that you would then watch the individual temps. Some folks I respect disagree with me (but they certainly haven't convinced me that my opinions are wrong)!

 

What is their arguement? To disagree w/ the theory that w/ no egr cooler to rupture that a delta isnt telling us as much as the actually temp of the oil is suggesting that there's more to the delta than what has been told. Right?

 

Their concern is that the restricted coolant flow through the oil cooler is jeopardizing its reliability and that oil temps over, say 230*F, are detrimental.

 

I "spect" both opinions have merit. 230+F for sustained periods would to me indicate an oil cooler on it's way out and harmful to oil. I see up to 25F delta with 240F oil while towing up hill max loaded,and same as you,it doesn't worry me. I am at 60k miles and all origional except coolant filter and insite. Add my vote to coolant filter should be first and best mod.
I would like to see some reliable info regarding at what temp oil ( dino and synt) degrades more than normal.

 

From everything I've read even dino oil is good to around 400 degrees but since the standpipe inside the oil filter melts at 350 that's pretty much a moot point. I know that both are good to over 350.

For the record: I'm in Mark's court on the oil cooler temp delta with an EGR delete.

 

Flash point temps are 350+, but from everything I've read, oil can lose some of it's lubricating properties at lower temperatures which are more common(thermal degradation). I see oil temps of 240+ towing heavy in the desert, and have kept a 3000 mile change interval because of it.

I don't understand why the EOT/ECT delta wouldn't be as important with an EGR delete, as it's an indicator of the heat transfer efficiency of the oil cooler.

If EOT and ECT are both high with a good delta, I would look for cooling system inefficiencies(water pump, radiator, fan).

What am I missing?

 

I agree w/ part of your point William - yes the ECT/EOT delta temp it is an indication of the efficiency of the oil cooler performance ......... but that indicators PRIMARY function is to protect the EGR cooler.

It is my opinion that the oil cooler is not jeopardized until you see high oil temps (IMO that is over 245, maybe by quite a bit). Additionally I do not believe that any engine reliability issues are introduced with oil temps in the 245 degree range.

 

I agree with that, but personally think the delta is important, EGR cooler or not. I know you're not saying to ignore EOT temps with a delete, but I don't see why reasonable oil cooler efficiency wouldn't be desired.

I don't believe the oil cooler is in danger of being compromised at those temps either. I do wonder about viscosity reduction because of temperature, and if wear increases because of it.

 

Never argued this with me

to a degree delt still matters IMHO but ymmv.
the key with delt is a high spread can cause an oil cooler to rupture and leak oil in to the cooling system.
If you go back threw tsb 09-08-03 you will find refreance to high delta causing as well. I have never seen that happen but if you can get it above the boiling temp it is possible to do.