I'm looking for suggestions on how to proceed on my quest to have a "new" engine in my truck - a truck I'm bringing back to life but will probably sell in a year or two but want to be solid in the interim. For background, I overheated the current engine such that several cylinders have leaks to the cooling system and either several valves are bad or there are cracks in the heads - or both. In other words, the block and the heads are suspect.

The damage happened when I was dragging home an '82 parts truck w/a blown 351W. The crank on it is scored, but the block looks good and hasn't ever been bored out.

I bought an '85 w/a 351 HO that was rebuilt 30k miles ago. The oil pump had seized, breaking off teeth on the distributor. Ran a leak-down test and while the cylinders weren't sealing (it hasn't run in years) the valves appear to seal. Got it pulled down today and found the crank fair although the rod and main bearings are gone. But, there was no ridge in the cylinders and late today I was able to easily push #5 piston out of the block. Lo and behold the bore looks good to the point that there's still some cross-hatch showing. But, a quick check w/the inside mike showed that cylinder had been bored .080" over, and a double-check w/the dial calipers confirmed it - 4.080". As are the other cylinders. Tomorrow I'll push the other pistons out, clean the cylinders, and check everything for wear.

So, the question I'm mulling over is how to proceed. Obviously I won't make a decision until all the facts are in on the cylinders, but I see three general options:

1. Cheapo: Assuming the other cylinders look as good as #5, I could hone them and install new rings. And, if the crank is round maybe I can get by with new bearings. So, for the cost of a gasket set, bearings, and rings, if I can find them, I could have it back together.
2. Good but Slow: I can send the un-bored block out to have it bored, the crank turned, and the rods resized. With a rebuild kit including pistons, rings, gaskets, and bearings I could have a very solid engine.
3. Expensive but Fast: Another local FTE member recently purchased a long block from a local rebuilder for $950 and is very pleased with it. I could do the same but could use the essentially new water pump and cam off the overheated engine.

Please give my your thoughts. I want to keep the costs down as I already have more in the truck than I'll get back, but want to use it to tow so it needs to be reliable and strong. And, I don't want to have to do it again.

 

My opinion:

Build the standard bore block. If it needs bored, so be it. If not, great. You've got a good looking .010/.010 crank, but it needs checked. If it's not in spec, you've got 2 others to check out. Who knows, you might find one that is still close enough to stock specs that a simple polish will be plenty.

I don't like going over .030 on the overbore, or more than .010 off the crank, if I plan to keep the vehicle. My 300 is supposed to be .030 over, with a .010 under crank, according to the work order I found in it shortly after buying the truck. The work order was for ~$300 more than I paid for the whole truck..... Of course, I've gotten more than 100K out of the engine, trouble free, aside from T-stat and water pump.

I also don't really trust the "carryout" rebuilds, whether sold by a parts store or the rebuilder directly. They may last 100K, or they may not. If they last longer than the warrentty, that's all the builder really cares about. I've seen some pretty crappy things done by these "quicky" rebuilders.
As such, I'd rather do the work myself, and KNOW what I'm getting in the end, even if it costs me a bit more.

Again, this was my opinion.

 

That's what I asked for - your opinion. Thanks. And, for what its worth, that's my opinion as well.

Forgot to tell you, the 351W rings are .080-.081; .080-.081; and .188-189". Wonder what the FE rings are? But, that's a moot point if I go with #2 - build your own.

Btw, the '85 was a one-piece rear seal while the '82 is two-piece. Is there a diff in the block or is it just the crank? I can tell tomorrow as both are in the shop, but thought you might know.

 

I think the block and rear main cap are where the difference comes in, although the crank *could* also differ.
I like 1 piece rear main seals better, but the 2 piece work fine when installed correctly.

I've never seen seen the FE rings listed in decimal thickness, just the fractional size. I think the top/middle are 3/16". No idea what that comes out in decimal format......

 

Here's an update. Called around today and came up with the following:

• Southwest Engine Rebuilders will give me a long block w/o cam for $985, which lets me put my cam in. And, they'll give me a 1 year warranty. Further, the guy there said he would NOT put an engine in a truck that had been bored more then .040 as there will not be enough cooling capacity for it. However, he said I can sell the engine that's bored to .080 over as the drag racers and boat people don't care.
• American Engine Rebuilders wants $1,540 for a long block with cam. And, their warranty is 3 years even if I put my cam in it, which I would do.
• Dee at U-Save Machine was recommended by both the AER guy and another machine shop guy as being the best in Tulsa. He will do all the machine work for $1,100 including the rebuild kit with pistons, gaskets, etc.
• A high school acquaintance runs a machine shop in my home town, where I go every other week to see my father. He said he'll do all the machining, whatever is needed, for $450 to $475. And, he'll get the rebuild kit for $395, and it contains Felpro gaskets, Melling oil pump, etc. All the big name brands. So, the total is ~$870.

I've pretty well decided to take the parts to my home town and let the old guy there do his thing. Not only do I have complete faith in his work as he's got a very good rep, his price is the cheapest and I get the highest quality parts. May take longer since I'm not going up for a week and he takes a week or so to do the work, but I'd rather have quality than rapidity.

Comments? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

When I rebuilt my engine, I guess I lucked out when I found a guy who runs a shop he calls Blue Oval Performance Engineering. He's got trophies & pictures representing the Ford engines he's built.

My engine, being a 335-Series M-block, is generally thought of to be a boat anchor by people who don't know any better.

This guy knows better.

Anyhoo, I support taking it to the local guy and supporting your local economy. If he's got a good reputation, that's generally enough for me as these guys advertise by word of mouth.

BTW my builder had my engine for a month.

 

A month? Does it take that long to make a 335 series run well? Bummer, cause that's what dads truck has in it. :-). Guess I'll just have to keep the Windsor around 'til the M gets it's steroids.

 

"We shall sell no wine before its time." - Orson Welles for Paul Masson wine

This guy (Rob at Blue Oval) takes his time, I'm OK with that if it helps get a good product.

It's not just the M-blocks, pretty much all the engines from this era suffer from low compression & retarded valve & ignition timing to meet EPA emissions regulations.

He also generally has other work to do, too.

I've got a friend who used to be a professional engine builder until he hurt his back; this friend had Rob build his 1970 Chevy Camaro engine because he can see that Rob knows what he's doing and does it well.

 

Gary, I'd go with the guy near your dad. He quoted the best price, seems to be pretty knowledgable, and it would give you an extra reason to go see dad, as well as something you 2 can do together (drop off, pick up, and just go visit the guy in between) while you're there. Also, you can start a discussion about the upcoming M block rebuild for your dad's truck, and get him involved *directly* in the conversation.

I dunno about you, but I'd go that route even if it cost a bit more time and/or money, just to have another thing to do with dad during the visits.

I'm not familiar with the local shop, but, most shops in Tulsa charge more than shops in smaller towns. They have to for 2 reasons, their competitors do, and they have higher overhead.

 

People who have a good reputation and know what they are doing, tend to be busy and a little backed up all the time. Prepare yourself for this, ask him how long and hopefully he will be honest and tell you it might take a few weeks. An engine builder is definitely someone you don't want to go to after a week and tell them to hurry up and get it done.

 

Actually, I was being sarcastic. Giving ctubutis a hard time for running the 335 series. Guess it was a bit ..... obtuse. He knows I hope to get my father's '81 with a 351M, so hopefully he knew it was in jest.

But, I agree w/you on not rushing the machinist. I won't for several reason, the first of which you mentioned. Second, he's a friend. Third, it is 110 miles up there and I go up every other week to see Dad - he's 91 and .....

Anyway, now that I've made a decision I now have focus. Before I had 3 engines and didn't know what needed to be done to which since the decision of which way to go determined that: Rebuilt engine means I exhange the overheated engine and hope the block and heads are usable; Machine shop means I take the unbored engine and matched heads and get rid of the toasted engine - how is TBD.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. But, don't stop now!

 

Gary, Not to hijack your thread but of all your 351 w's would you have a 4bbl intake you would sell?

thanks
Bernie.

 

Unfortunately, no. I have only one and it is destined for the engine I'm building for the Explorer. It is the Ford HO manifold and is cast iron.

I do have a Performer 289 manifold, but unless you have a way to stretch it quite a bit I'm afraid you'll have quite a leak. I also have a good Ford aluminum 2 bbl manifold that I've powder coated, but doubt that's what you really want.

Sorry

 

Thanks for the reply Gary. I'm going to keep holding out until i find one, so if you run into another please keep me in mind. The sad part is when i left RI I scrapped 3 of them along with tons of other nice parts as i convinced myself i would be buying a newer EFI truck.

 

Will do. But, where are you? Maybe you could fill out the location info as well as details on your truck in User Control Panel? Click the link above left just below Reply to Thread. That'll help us provide more appropriate responses for you.

I ask "where" because the iron manifold is heavy and shipping might be prohibitive. May be better off to find an Edelbrock via craigslist locally.