2001 V6 - New Owner - Turnover issue
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2001 V6 - New Owner - Turnover issue
Hello,
I just bought a 2001 XLT on Friday, and its been a great little SUV so far. Only issue that I notice is that when I turn the key, the engine seems to struggle turning over, and will sound like its coming real close. If I stop trying, wait half a second (literally), and turn key again, it will start up without a problem. Is this something to do with starter, plugs, fuel system? The truck has 120k miles on it, and I have it in the shop right now to have transmission flushed, coolant flushed, plugs changed, differential flushed, fuel system cleansing, and all that good stuff taken care of. I wanted to start my own maintenance schedule since I am 2nd owner, and have no idea what last person did. Any thoughts on my strange issue? Seems weird as my old pontiac just always started instantly, no matter how beat up it was.
Thanks!
I just bought a 2001 XLT on Friday, and its been a great little SUV so far. Only issue that I notice is that when I turn the key, the engine seems to struggle turning over, and will sound like its coming real close. If I stop trying, wait half a second (literally), and turn key again, it will start up without a problem. Is this something to do with starter, plugs, fuel system? The truck has 120k miles on it, and I have it in the shop right now to have transmission flushed, coolant flushed, plugs changed, differential flushed, fuel system cleansing, and all that good stuff taken care of. I wanted to start my own maintenance schedule since I am 2nd owner, and have no idea what last person did. Any thoughts on my strange issue? Seems weird as my old pontiac just always started instantly, no matter how beat up it was.
Thanks!
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From: suburban atlanta
I would wait to see how it performed after all the work is done. It may be that the gap on the plugs was just marginal, or the injectors were partially gummed.
My impression of the way my 07 3l starts is that it cranks enough revolutions to determine crankshaft position, and then it turns on the spark and fuel. The engine then starts as if a switch had been thrown. crank crank crank ... just about a three count, and then vroom.
If you have any doubt about your shop, try to make sure they changed the rear spark plugs. If they are left too long, they can take out the COP[coil on plug] at ~$44 a pop, or even the ECM costing much more. In most cases the upper intake manifold gaskets are replaced at the same time. Note also the elbow on the PCV will rot out over time and mess with starting and your idle.
tom
My impression of the way my 07 3l starts is that it cranks enough revolutions to determine crankshaft position, and then it turns on the spark and fuel. The engine then starts as if a switch had been thrown. crank crank crank ... just about a three count, and then vroom.
If you have any doubt about your shop, try to make sure they changed the rear spark plugs. If they are left too long, they can take out the COP[coil on plug] at ~$44 a pop, or even the ECM costing much more. In most cases the upper intake manifold gaskets are replaced at the same time. Note also the elbow on the PCV will rot out over time and mess with starting and your idle.
tom
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I had them throw in a full set of plugs, I even provided the plugs myself and set the gap. These new plugs are doing the same thing, so I'm inclined to believe that there is something else. Once the vehicle starts, it runs like a champ, so I'm pretty happy there. Just trying to figure out what could be going wrong here.
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Definitely seems like its trying to start, even after the tune up. It almost never starts first try if it has been sitting for more than an hour. If it is still "warm", there doesn't seem to be an issue. If I turn key for 2 seconds, then stop, hold for half a second, then turn key again, seems fine. Would this be indicative of a starter issue?
Logistics Pro
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From: suburban atlanta
Your last just described the test for a 'leaky' injection system. The fuel rail is 'charged' with fuel, under pressure, when the key is first turned to ON. The fuel pump runs for 3-5 seconds to make sure the fuel is there and under pressure. Cycling the key gives enough time with the pump running to make up for the leakage back to the tank through the pump check valve, or leakage into the intake from a leaking injector. The real test is to put a pressure gauge on the system, and check how long it holds pressure. There is a spec for pressure and volume, and expected leakdown rate. If you can live with it, you can keep cycling the key once or twice until you get tired of it.
tom
tom
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Thanks for the info. I'm mechanically inclined, but not to that level. Is this a serious issue? Could my uncle who runs a shop be able to fix this? I don't mind double turning, but will it damage my system in the long run?
Thanks for the help so far.
Thanks for the help so far.
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From: suburban atlanta
If you want it to operate as it did previously, you would test the pressure to determine if the hypothesis and symptoms are supported by a measurement. Then, if the test proved leakdown of the system, you would determine if it was the injector(s) or the fuel pump. I think you have a returnless system that does not circulate unused fuel back to the tank, so there is only the pump check valve or injectors as possible culprints.
Currently, you cycle the switch or use the starter more than normal to get the engine to start. Cycling the ignition switch one more time per cold startup is not going to lead to extensive wear, in my opinion. Eventually, the leak down will get so bad you are likely to be cranking the engine more than normal no matter what you do. Starter motors are not cheap, so I would wear out an ignition switch more readily than the starter.
Any garage that can drop a fuel tank and replace the pump and sender, or just the pump if the check valve is built in, would be acceptable. It is not real hard work, you just have to insure the tank is mostly empty of fuel to make it maneuverable.
tom
Currently, you cycle the switch or use the starter more than normal to get the engine to start. Cycling the ignition switch one more time per cold startup is not going to lead to extensive wear, in my opinion. Eventually, the leak down will get so bad you are likely to be cranking the engine more than normal no matter what you do. Starter motors are not cheap, so I would wear out an ignition switch more readily than the starter.
Any garage that can drop a fuel tank and replace the pump and sender, or just the pump if the check valve is built in, would be acceptable. It is not real hard work, you just have to insure the tank is mostly empty of fuel to make it maneuverable.
tom
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Strangely, I tried to start it this morning and there was no problem at all. It had consistently not been working for me, but there wasn't an issue. I had the fuel system cleaned Monday morning, so perhaps the effects of that are going through? Also, I noticed that when I depress the brake to shift into reverse, there is a clicking made, is that normal, because its something I just noticed this morning as well. Thanks for all the help so far.
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From: suburban atlanta
When you press on the brake, you may be enabling the shift solenoid that prevents shifting from P unless the brake pedal is depressed. When you press on the brake pedal you are closing a switch to make the solenoid move a blocking tab out of the way so you can shift.
tom
tom
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So the solenoid is just doing its job, and that may be the sound I'm hearing? I did a quick google search, and it seems like other people have the same issue, but that it isn't one that should be of much concern. Also, I tried letting the car sit for a few hours, started it again, and it worked first time. Guess the car worked itself out hopefully?
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From: suburban atlanta
You scared it. I have had cars that were cantankerous, and threatened to trade them ... or junk them, and they started to work OK again. My old station wagon started to drip from the rack and pinion, which had been replaced about 24k ago, the original lasting about 220k. I kept adding a bit of old transmission fluid to keep the pump from burning the slippers, and it stopped leaking. I was NOT about to do a second R&R of the rack & pinion after such a short time, and was considering saying sayanora... And it stopped leaking ...
Go figure.
tom
Go figure.
tom
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So I think that I am narrowing down what may be the issue. I have a feeling it has something to do with the injectors, as the vehicle seems to be consuming gas a bit more rapidly than I would anticipate. Also, I'm not sure, but I feel like this may tie into the issue of starting. I was in Tahoe this past weekend, and during the cold, starting was definitely an issue. Down here in the valley, it seems to have worked itself out. Would taking a look at injectors probably be best bet from here? Any way to correct if fuel/air mixture is messed up?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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From: suburban atlanta
Why not summarize 1)the problem, and 2)all the things you have had done. It's hard to keep track, and I am lost as to the current problem. During cold temperature weather, the ECT and ACT temp sensors check the air and coolant and adjust the mix a bit richer. Being at altitude in Tahoe would also affect the mixture. Dunno which would have the most effect.
If you need to replace the sending unit because of leakdown, I have heard that under the rear seat cushion there is an access panel for the sender. You don't have to drop the tank, I guess.
I thought you had the injectors professionally cleaned. True?
tom
If you need to replace the sending unit because of leakdown, I have heard that under the rear seat cushion there is an access panel for the sender. You don't have to drop the tank, I guess.
I thought you had the injectors professionally cleaned. True?
tom