I have a 2004 F-250 CC SB V10 Auto 2WD 3.73LS LT265/75R16 Build Date 8/2003 115,000 miles on the odo. About three years ago I had the truck in the local aftermarket shop and was impressed by the Bullydog tuner/monitor the owner had on his 2008 F350 TDI. The shop owner figured out that BullyDog would not work on my truck (build date prior to 12/2003?) and suggested an SCT LiveWire. He ordered it in and installed it. It was supposedly special tuned by SCT for my 8/2003 build date. At first I thought I had a real power enhancer but that feeling soon turned sour. The major reason was that the LiveWire ran the battery down in less than 3 days. I replaced the battery, at my expense, on the strong advice of the shop owner and the SCT rep. The new battery fared no better. Now they are talking major electrical problems with the trucks charging system. I was several hundred miles away while this battery nonsense was not being resolved. The only way I could keep the battery alive was to unplug the LiveWire whenever I shut the truck off. The dealer replaced the LiveWire with a new one with no better results. I finally had them remove it and refund my money. The replacement battery is still alive and ticking today so the charging system must be ok.

About performance: I lost about .5-1.0 mpg with the tuner program installed. Shifting was very crisp in fact it was excessively crisp almost to the point of calling it slamming into gear. In short, the truck felt like it had a drag race tune in it. Yet while towing, I sometimes had to stomp on the pedal to get a downshift while climbing a hill. All this has left me very turned off with tuners. In addition, I'm not really sure that the stock program was returned to the truck when the tuner was finally removed. All in all, I think the SCT LiveWire tuners were installed and removed at least 5 times. I think the truck runs like original, but I'll always have that doubt in my mind.

The truck is now only used for towing my 5000# RV and hardware shopping trips. It sits most of the time and I try to take it for a 30-50 mile spin at least once a month when it it not in use. I put less than 5,000 miles/yr on the truck now since both me and the truck are retired from the daily grind.

I'm thinking of upgrading the truck with 4.30 gears and a Gear Vendors under/overdrive 'cause I want to pull a 5er in the 13,000# range. My current tow capacity is listed at 10,600#.

What was changed on the V10's built after 12/2003?

Is there a tuner that will work on this truck and give useful results?

p.s. I was/am a little peeved at Ford for marketing my truck as a 2004 when it essentially has a 2003 drive train.

 

The Livewires were known to have trouble especially the earlier ones. You would not have been better off with Bully Dog tuner. Bully Dog is known to have some horrible tunes which can actually do damage.(Mostly on the diesels)

Best bet is to contact Mike at the link below and go with an SCT X3 unit. SCT has good hardware and software you just need the right tunes for it which 5 star provides. The X3 unit just reflashes your pcm thus no hardware left on the truck.The canned tunes that come with most tuners are not to great thats why you go custom. You will definatly want a Tow tune for towing and a performance tune when not towing. You can get a tune for any octane fuel you want to run.

5 Star Tuning | Custom Dynomemeter Chassis Tuning Products and Services

 

A couple of things. Did the power light on the LiveWire go off when you turn off the key? I just checked, and it's only connection to the truck is through the OBD-II connector which I believe provides power 100% of the time.

Also "model year" and "build date" are two different things. The model year starts in what, June? July? August? of the previous year. So if the truck is a model-year 2004, it could have been built pretty early in 2003. The build date is used to get a more accurate point in time in terms of certain things like drivetrain changes. This has been going on for decades, it's just the way it is. My 2001 model-year truck was built in October, 2000. The engine was assembled in September 2000.

Talk to Mike at 5-star. He will get you GOOD tunes for whatever truck you have, setup to how YOU want it. Once you install the tune, if you want something tweaked, he can (and usually does) alter it to suit you no matter what. AND - if you don't like it, he will refund 100% of your money, except for the return shipping. Ask him for details on that though, I don't want to speak for him.

If you stilll have the LiveWire, I'm not entirely sure, but Mike can sell you tunes that will work with it. That way you can use your existing hardware and maybe save some $'s, I don't know.

ALSO - you can turn the LiveWire off manually so it doesn't drain your battery Or, you could possibly wire a relay into the OBD-II port power and have it shut off with the key... but that might complicate uploading tunes.

 

Art,

The light and display on the LiveWire will go off if you program it so. However the LiveWire is still drawing what appears to be full power even when the lights are off. SCT calls it "Standby Mode". There is no true OFF switch on the LiveWire. The Livewire stays very warm to the touch at all times when it is plugged in. The local SCT rep. tried to convince me that the LiveWire was warm because it was installed on the top of the dash and the sun was keeping it warm. I usually park under the shade tree. He also said that he had one in his Mustang and had no problems with it. Now, everybody knows that the Super Duty and Mustang are both Fords so they should work the same!

I did not want to get into rewiring the OBD-II in case I had to go back to Ford for diagnostics. I did not want to rework the LiveWire cable in case I had to send it back. The only workaround would have been to build a male to female OBD-II extension cable and wire the relay into it.

I'll probably get in touch with Mike if I decide to keep this truck and up-grade it for increased towing capibilities. I may still go with a diesel replacement. That decision is the main reason I joined FTE. I'm trying to soak up all the info I can.

I want to ask the same question again: Does anyone know what was changed on the Super Duty V10 models between 11/2003 and 12/2003?

All of the V10 tuners/monitors that the local accessory shop looked at would not work with a 2003 or earlier Super Duty V10 and the cut-off date for 2004 models is December 1, 2003. SCT was the only one that would try to work with my 8/2003 build truck.

Don't have the LiveWire anymore. I use a ScanGaugeII that I transfer between my F-250 and my MINI Cooper. Don't have tunes with it!

Mike

 

For the counterpoint part of the program, I have an SCT Livewire with custom tunes from Mike and could not be happier.

I also do not leave it plugged in all the time so I have not experienced any battery drain. I only plug in when changing tunes or on long trips.

 

I wanted to leave the LiveWire plugged in all the time so I could use the displays (TPS, RPM, MAF, etc.) to teach my foot economy driving the way it used to be done with a vacuum gauge on a carburetor metered engine.

If I go there again, it will be with Mike & 5Star.

 

The Scangauge II works good for some of the gauges. As I said earlier get an X3 to do the tuning, these trucks function so much better with a good tune.

I think your local shop didn't have much of clue what the deal was. I have an 04', my dad has an 03' both are tuned. As far as the engine electronics go the strategy code and the pcm code was the only thing that is different between our trucks. You tell the Mike the strategy code and pcm code when you order the tuner OR he will send you a unit to pull the info off the pcm, then you send it back to him.

 

I have a 2000 and no problem running tunes from Mike at 5 Star on a SCT device. You find a bunch of guys on here with 99-03 that have no issues. I never heard of any changes with the 2004 that would effect the tuning vs previous years.

 

This is direct quote from Mike on an email i sent him asking questions about the SCT X3.

"The X3 also acts as a diagnostic code reader for any Ford vehicle. Another very flexible advantage the X3 has is it can be used on any Ford Vehicles. So down the road if you upgrade your vehicle to a newer Ford model the X3 still would work on it. Pricing for X3's custom tuned are $415.000 cost to your door. This also includes FREE shipping and FREE tune revision updates. Once we have all info on your truck takes about 1 day to ship. "

So you could get it for your V10 and if you do upgrade to diesel, as long as it is still a Ford, you can use the same tuner. You'll just have to download new tunes for it which I would assume fall under the free tune revisions but would be a good question for Mike.

Since the tunes are vehicle specific, you will need to know your pcm code. On my truck, I pulled the screws in the driver side fenderwell from the bottom behind the running boards to the top part above the wheel and looked up in and seen the pcm code on a sticker. 3 letters and a number I believe it is. Just give him that along with your other truck info and which tunes you want.

If you dont have time or desire to get the pcm code, I believe there is also the option of buying the tuner without the pcm code or tunes loaded on it and then when you recieve it, plug it in and get what they call a stategy code that they can use to set up your tunes and email them to you to download on to the tuner.

 

I actually have a vacuum gauge on my V10, and it HAS helped quite a bit.

It was in my highboy, a nice AutoMeter, and I couldn't just let it go to waste when I scrapped the highboy