Head work... need help from the pros!!!!
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Des Moines, Iowa
You need to post a photo of the v.spring side of your head. Are there studs sticking up to hold the rockers, or are there bolts that go through rockers into head?
I found this on Fordsix a while back: A pedestal mount 300 head can use stud mount rockers if you use a pushrod guidplate conversion kit. I have intsalled it on my 90 cyl head and it all works just fine. Crane part number 36655-16 will give you 3/8 studs and guideplate for 5/16 pushrods. If you go this route hardened pushrods are not required becuse the kit has nylon inserts in the guidplates. I had to mix a couple of kits on mine cause I needed 7/16 studs for BBC rockers I already had. It is best for long life of the nylon inserts if you polish the pushrods to make sure there are no burrs on them. This is easy to do in a drill.
This conversion kit will also make your valvtrain adjustable.
Myself: I ran 1.7 big block chevy roller rockers for a while, and will not run them again w/o p.rod guides. The power was great, changing my v. lift from .450 to .485 IIRC. But, I suffered in the mpg area. The power was awesome, but a valve popped loose on the freeway, and it was only by sheer prayer that it did not drop into the cylinder, or the engine would of been scrap.
Having said that, a lot of guys use the rockers off a chevy 250 I6, and those types are more forgiving. If I were you, I would stay as oem as possible. OEM (original equipment manufactured) means dependable. If you p&p the head, install a good cam with 3 angle valve job w. 30* back cut on the intakes, convert to a 4v intake w. carb, and go with the GM 4 pin ignition with an aftermarket coil, you'll be more than impressed and happy. Check out go fast for less dot com.
The sbc valves are larger diameter valves, allowing the engine to breathe easier, to intake more air, and that equals more power. Unless you have $1,000 to spend on the head, don't go that route.
I found this on Fordsix a while back: A pedestal mount 300 head can use stud mount rockers if you use a pushrod guidplate conversion kit. I have intsalled it on my 90 cyl head and it all works just fine. Crane part number 36655-16 will give you 3/8 studs and guideplate for 5/16 pushrods. If you go this route hardened pushrods are not required becuse the kit has nylon inserts in the guidplates. I had to mix a couple of kits on mine cause I needed 7/16 studs for BBC rockers I already had. It is best for long life of the nylon inserts if you polish the pushrods to make sure there are no burrs on them. This is easy to do in a drill.
This conversion kit will also make your valvtrain adjustable.
Myself: I ran 1.7 big block chevy roller rockers for a while, and will not run them again w/o p.rod guides. The power was great, changing my v. lift from .450 to .485 IIRC. But, I suffered in the mpg area. The power was awesome, but a valve popped loose on the freeway, and it was only by sheer prayer that it did not drop into the cylinder, or the engine would of been scrap.
Having said that, a lot of guys use the rockers off a chevy 250 I6, and those types are more forgiving. If I were you, I would stay as oem as possible. OEM (original equipment manufactured) means dependable. If you p&p the head, install a good cam with 3 angle valve job w. 30* back cut on the intakes, convert to a 4v intake w. carb, and go with the GM 4 pin ignition with an aftermarket coil, you'll be more than impressed and happy. Check out go fast for less dot com.
The sbc valves are larger diameter valves, allowing the engine to breathe easier, to intake more air, and that equals more power. Unless you have $1,000 to spend on the head, don't go that route.
Sounds like it cost big money to change valves and rockers... And I really don't want to KILL the mpgs on this motor. I just want some really decent power! I kinda want to take it back out to my inlaws farm and let my FIL drive it and see/feel the power difference!
As for the GM 4pin... I think that sounds like a great idea. I havn't heard of the gm 4pin swap before so I'll have to read up or have one of you fill me in. Either way I need to get everything back together and working... THEN I'll go back for the GM 4 pin and other small things I can do on the top end once it's all back together. Helps me to keep things straight if I do things in stages...
Outside the scope of this thread but... What do you guys think about me converting to a hydralic clutch???? I am thinking of doing the ZF swap later and thought while I have the engine out it would be easier to run the whole hydralic system in now...
Also wanted to ask what the final drive ratio is on a ZF compaired to a T18? Didn't know if the ZF was geared a little better on OD for the hwy or not???
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Boise, Idaho
Outside the scope of this thread but... What do you guys think about me converting to a hydralic clutch???? I am thinking of doing the ZF swap later and thought while I have the engine out it would be easier to run the whole hydralic system in now...
Also wanted to ask what the final drive ratio is on a ZF compaired to a T18? Didn't know if the ZF was geared a little better on OD for the hwy or not???
Also wanted to ask what the final drive ratio is on a ZF compaired to a T18? Didn't know if the ZF was geared a little better on OD for the hwy or not???
As for the ZF vs. the T18: (Are you sure you have a T18? Most 300s came with an NP-435)
T18:
Low: 6.32
1st: 3.03
2nd: 1.79
3rd: 1.00
ZF:
Low: 5.72
1st: 2.94
2nd: 1.61
3rd: 1.00
OD: 0.76
So, they're pretty close to being the same (besides the T18 having a lower granny) except that the ZF gives you the option of shifting into overdrive on the highway. If you never take it above 55, you don't really need one.
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,703
Likes: 7
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Have no worries. With just a new cam, carb, and exhaust, that 300 will set you back in your seat like never before. And if you have any head work like porting, even more so. They'll be impressed.
The easiest way to install a hydraulic clutch is to have a donor truck (or at least another truck that has the same transmission and setup) so you can see exactly where everything mounts and goes. I believe you have to do the hydraulic swap when you do the trans swap. As in, you can't switch your current mechanical clutch to a hydraulic and still have the mechanical clutch transmission. I could be completely wrong though.
As for the ZF vs. the T18: (Are you sure you have a T18? Most 300s came with an NP-435)
T18:
Low: 6.32
1st: 3.03
2nd: 1.79
3rd: 1.00
ZF:
Low: 5.72
1st: 2.94
2nd: 1.61
3rd: 1.00
OD: 0.76
So, they're pretty close to being the same (besides the T18 having a lower granny) except that the ZF gives you the option of shifting into overdrive on the highway. If you never take it above 55, you don't really need one.
The easiest way to install a hydraulic clutch is to have a donor truck (or at least another truck that has the same transmission and setup) so you can see exactly where everything mounts and goes. I believe you have to do the hydraulic swap when you do the trans swap. As in, you can't switch your current mechanical clutch to a hydraulic and still have the mechanical clutch transmission. I could be completely wrong though.
As for the ZF vs. the T18: (Are you sure you have a T18? Most 300s came with an NP-435)
T18:
Low: 6.32
1st: 3.03
2nd: 1.79
3rd: 1.00
ZF:
Low: 5.72
1st: 2.94
2nd: 1.61
3rd: 1.00
OD: 0.76
So, they're pretty close to being the same (besides the T18 having a lower granny) except that the ZF gives you the option of shifting into overdrive on the highway. If you never take it above 55, you don't really need one.
Thinking about it now though the hydro systems are probably different between the hydro zf and the 86 hydro 4spd (i'll check which one i have 2nite). Either way it's probably best to leave the clutch systems alone till the zf swap...
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I believe they are. One has an internal slave and the other has an external.
The NP-435 is pretty similar to the T18 but even lower. It has one of the lowest granny gears around with a 6.69. 1st is 3.34.
It's fun teaching your wife to drive a manual. She doesn't like automatics any more.
Her Bronco has an NP-435 in it.
The NP-435 is pretty similar to the T18 but even lower. It has one of the lowest granny gears around with a 6.69. 1st is 3.34.
It's fun teaching your wife to drive a manual. She doesn't like automatics any more.
Her Bronco has an NP-435 in it.
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
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Likes: 7
From: Des Moines, Iowa
I'm going to check the tranny and axle ratio this weekend... I'm guessing the T-18 and NP435 have a tag on the case that I'll be able to find...
I'd try to teach the wife with my ZF but the syncros are going out in 1st-3rd so it can be a little tricky not grinding the gears... the wife hates grinding gears and i'm not a big fan of it either!
You know thinking about that 8lug swap over I think the sterling with f250 springs in the rear might boost the "raked" look so I might have to get F250 2wd front springs for the d44 to even it all out. hmm... wonder if that will jack up my alignment and steering...??? maybe that's a thought for the 4x4 off road thread guys
I'd try to teach the wife with my ZF but the syncros are going out in 1st-3rd so it can be a little tricky not grinding the gears... the wife hates grinding gears and i'm not a big fan of it either!
You know thinking about that 8lug swap over I think the sterling with f250 springs in the rear might boost the "raked" look so I might have to get F250 2wd front springs for the d44 to even it all out. hmm... wonder if that will jack up my alignment and steering...??? maybe that's a thought for the 4x4 off road thread guys
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,703
Likes: 7
From: Des Moines, Iowa
just so F250 can rest easier tonite... here are my pedistal rockers. ICKY that log exhaust and single barrel intake are outta here! EFI manifolds and Offey DP soon!
Here is the 83 head with the old press in stud type... I got it cleaned and magnafluxed and home just in time to read that pedistal rockers on the 85/86 F150's would save me some machining $$$ not having to put screw in studs on... UGH! $30-$40 out the window on that head. Could be worse but well see what the 86 head brings if I get time to pull it this weekend! Oh and yes that's my holley 390cfm carb (on right) getting close to rebuilt when that pic was taken. AB you'll notice that heated carb spacer you found me is cleaned and sitting under a plastic package in middle of pic. I have yet to ask my local welding shop to fix the gap that would cause an air leak. Man how nice would it be if you could buy a heated spacer that would fit 100% and have the in and out for the antifreeze on the passenger side (for ease of re-routing the heater core hoses). I may or may not run the heated spacer to begin with...
Here is the 83 head with the old press in stud type... I got it cleaned and magnafluxed and home just in time to read that pedistal rockers on the 85/86 F150's would save me some machining $$$ not having to put screw in studs on... UGH! $30-$40 out the window on that head. Could be worse but well see what the 86 head brings if I get time to pull it this weekend! Oh and yes that's my holley 390cfm carb (on right) getting close to rebuilt when that pic was taken. AB you'll notice that heated carb spacer you found me is cleaned and sitting under a plastic package in middle of pic. I have yet to ask my local welding shop to fix the gap that would cause an air leak. Man how nice would it be if you could buy a heated spacer that would fit 100% and have the in and out for the antifreeze on the passenger side (for ease of re-routing the heater core hoses). I may or may not run the heated spacer to begin with...
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
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Likes: 6
From: Earth
One advantage to the '83 head is running Chevy rocker arms for some added lift.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.
Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head. It doesn't need much work to make good power where the 300 is designed to run.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.
Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head. It doesn't need much work to make good power where the 300 is designed to run.
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Lead Driver
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From: Near Los Angeles
One advantage to the '83 head is running Chevy rocker arms for some added lift.Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head.
The sbc rockers are nice, but when the v.cover is installed no on knows they are there. They eat mpg, and take a lot more 'setting up', that, if not done absolutely correct, will cost you major $ down the road. Wouldn't you rather have an engine that produced great power and lasted forever, PLUS good mpg? If you want more lift, but a cam with it. The 1.7 rockers move the p.rod closer to the fulcrum, so you need to open the slot up more, and install guide plates. Translation: $$ and time and pia. The simple truth is: The more you change, the more you will be working on that engine.
With valves, there are MANY thing to think about: shaft diameter, distance from keepers to tip, seat diameter, etc. I don't mean to belittle what you say, BVA, but I went through this about 2 1/2 years ago. It is easy to say, oh, so many dollars for this, and so many for that. But unless you are there at the machine shop with your checking book, it is merely speculation. I had it all done to my 81 head, and it cost me $700, plus the cost of the roller rockers, and the cost of new ARP studs when the machine shop ones started breaking, plus the cost of new keepers, and nearly the cost of a new engine when one of the valves popped loose b/c it was so fun getting on it. B/c the sbc valves are .095" longer than the oem ford valves so I had much more psi at the installed height of the springs. The machinist did not cut the v.spring seats as needed for the Isky springs, so the longer valves actually helped a bit, but still I had
too much psi. What I am trying to say, is that there is a lot to think about when swapping parts around, and it should not be taken lightly. I am trying to save you $ and time.
Regarding head work: No, the reason they don't sell one is that there is not a large enough market to make it worth while financially.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head.
The sbc rockers are nice, but when the v.cover is installed no on knows they are there. They eat mpg, and take a lot more 'setting up', that, if not done absolutely correct, will cost you major $ down the road. Wouldn't you rather have an engine that produced great power and lasted forever, PLUS good mpg? If you want more lift, but a cam with it. The 1.7 rockers move the p.rod closer to the fulcrum, so you need to open the slot up more, and install guide plates. Translation: $$ and time and pia. The simple truth is: The more you change, the more you will be working on that engine.
With valves, there are MANY thing to think about: shaft diameter, distance from keepers to tip, seat diameter, etc. I don't mean to belittle what you say, BVA, but I went through this about 2 1/2 years ago. It is easy to say, oh, so many dollars for this, and so many for that. But unless you are there at the machine shop with your checking book, it is merely speculation. I had it all done to my 81 head, and it cost me $700, plus the cost of the roller rockers, and the cost of new ARP studs when the machine shop ones started breaking, plus the cost of new keepers, and nearly the cost of a new engine when one of the valves popped loose b/c it was so fun getting on it. B/c the sbc valves are .095" longer than the oem ford valves so I had much more psi at the installed height of the springs. The machinist did not cut the v.spring seats as needed for the Isky springs, so the longer valves actually helped a bit, but still I had
too much psi. What I am trying to say, is that there is a lot to think about when swapping parts around, and it should not be taken lightly. I am trying to save you $ and time.
Regarding head work: No, the reason they don't sell one is that there is not a large enough market to make it worth while financially.
Lead Driver
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From: Near Los Angeles
Postmaster
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From: Earth
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From: In my own world
IDK, I'll compare them to stock, I hope they work, but if not, I'll use them on one of my small blocks.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,703
Likes: 7
From: Des Moines, Iowa
One advantage to the '83 head is running Chevy rocker arms for some added lift.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.
Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head. It doesn't need much work to make good power where the 300 is designed to run.
Getting the valve pockets cut for new valves wouldn't be too expensive. Maybe $300 tops plus the cost of valves. I've got a couple of sets of 1.84" valves from a 351w in the shed, they're cheap and plentiful used. Probably $5 a pop to have them cleaned and reground. A new Chevy 1.94/1.60 valve set maybe be cheaper. If you're adventurous enough to do a little porting and shop around a bit you'd have a nice head for ~$400-500.
Head work can be expensive but it makes huge performance gains. There's a reason V8 guys drop $1,500 bucks on aluminum heads. On a low revving L6...there's a reason nobody sells a reasonably priced aluminum head. It doesn't need much work to make good power where the 300 is designed to run.
I do have a question for those of you who are the veterans of these I6 motors. Can I fix that 83 head (ie: bigger valves, p&p work, sbc rockers, etc) and put it on my 88? What is the difference between the EFI head and the 83 head? what modifications would I need to make?