At Wit's END - need help please.
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From: The middle of nowhere
At Wit's END - need help please.
Our '01 F250 7.3L PSD 58210 miles now for the 
For some reason it absolutely refuses to start unless it has been plugged in to the power cord for a minimum of 1 hour. This does not matter what the outdoor temperature is. We are currently at 4300' in NW AZ (Kingman area) and getting ready to go back to Boulder City NV in 2 weeks. Have a 5th wheel to move. Also the SES light is on.
We have not been able to get the codes read - the one place in Kingman 'has a waiting list' and the same in Las Vegas. Do not know anyone that has AE that could read the codes. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
What we have done to date is
so far this month)
2 New Batteries
Fresh Oil Change
New Fuel Filter
New CPS
New MAP
New GPR
New IPC
Still to do is the O ring replacement on the IPR
For some reason it absolutely refuses to start unless it has been plugged in to the power cord for a minimum of 1 hour. This does not matter what the outdoor temperature is. We are currently at 4300' in NW AZ (Kingman area) and getting ready to go back to Boulder City NV in 2 weeks. Have a 5th wheel to move. Also the SES light is on.
We have not been able to get the codes read - the one place in Kingman 'has a waiting list' and the same in Las Vegas. Do not know anyone that has AE that could read the codes. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
What we have done to date is
so far this month)2 New Batteries
Fresh Oil Change
New Fuel Filter
New CPS
New MAP
New GPR
New IPC
Still to do is the O ring replacement on the IPR
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Freshman User
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From: The middle of nowhere
It is new and has been checked. It is working.
Additional Note:
Checked the oil level in the HPOP. It is clean and appropriately full.
Additional Note:
Checked the oil level in the HPOP. It is clean and appropriately full.
Last edited by CosmoStarr; Mar 29, 2011 at 06:42 PM. Reason: added additional information
Post Fiend
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From: Texas
What happens when you try to crank it when it doesn't start? Any smoke out the tail pipe while cranking? Have you tested your new GPR to make sure it's putting volts out to the glow plugs? Have you tried starting it with the ICP unplugged? What about the EOT sensor? Try unplugging that and starting, but don't leave it unplugged if you drive or rev the motor.
What led you to replace the MAP and ICP sensors? When the truck starts after being plugged in, does it start right up or is it slow to start and take a bit to smooth out? If you take the top off your air filter box, can you see any dirt inside the tube going back to the turbo?
What led you to replace the MAP and ICP sensors? When the truck starts after being plugged in, does it start right up or is it slow to start and take a bit to smooth out? If you take the top off your air filter box, can you see any dirt inside the tube going back to the turbo?
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Chris, thank you for the promptness in your reply. Here are the answers to the Q's.
Just cranking - no smoke. When it actually does try to fire - black smoke.
GPR: Finger tested it - opening and closing when it is supposed to. Will check the volts in the morning. How many volts should it be producing?
ICP: Did that with the old one but have not tried it with the new one (unplugging it and trying to start it)
EOT: Would I be unplugging it prior to a cold start? I have not done that one yet at all cold or hot start.
The reason for changing out the MAP and ICP were due to 'aggressive shifting'. It corrected that problem.
The truck starts right up after being plugged in but it takes a few moments to settle or self adjust.
As for the tube going to the turbo - it is as clean as a freshly washed baby's behind!
Just cranking - no smoke. When it actually does try to fire - black smoke.
GPR: Finger tested it - opening and closing when it is supposed to. Will check the volts in the morning. How many volts should it be producing?
ICP: Did that with the old one but have not tried it with the new one (unplugging it and trying to start it)
EOT: Would I be unplugging it prior to a cold start? I have not done that one yet at all cold or hot start.
The reason for changing out the MAP and ICP were due to 'aggressive shifting'. It corrected that problem.
The truck starts right up after being plugged in but it takes a few moments to settle or self adjust.
As for the tube going to the turbo - it is as clean as a freshly washed baby's behind!
Post Fiend
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From: Texas
One of the big posts on the GPR should show battery voltage with the key off, 12 - 13v. When you first turn the key on, the other large post should show about 1 volt less than battery voltage for a few seconds up to two minutes. And just to be safe, you don't have a GPCM on the truck do you? Just the GPR and AIH relay's next to each other, right?
Unplugging the EOT before a cold start will make the computer assume cold temps and turn the glow plugs on for a full two minutes while starting. As soon as it does start it will assume a fully warmed up engine so I'd expect some smoke and a rough idle since the timing will be adjusted.
Great news about the clean intake. That was a worst case scenario.
Unplugging the EOT before a cold start will make the computer assume cold temps and turn the glow plugs on for a full two minutes while starting. As soon as it does start it will assume a fully warmed up engine so I'd expect some smoke and a rough idle since the timing will be adjusted.
Great news about the clean intake. That was a worst case scenario.
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Cargo Master
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From: Snohomish, WA
Just so you know the finger test on the GPR isn't always a good indication. I had a neighbor going through the same thing as you and he asked me to look at it. I was at his house so no tools. I had him turn the key on and I heard an audible click with each turn of the key. When I had time the next day he brought it by. I through the volt meter on it and got a big goose egg on the output post. R&R'd the GPR and she worked great after that. When I tore the GPR apart, the output post contact was all but gone on the inside.
Also have you ohm'd out the glow plugs? With 58k on it you should be fine, but something to look at.
Also have you ohm'd out the glow plugs? With 58k on it you should be fine, but something to look at.
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From: The middle of nowhere
Ken,
You are right that the testing the GPR with just a finger is not always conclusive - and we will be testing the new one this morning with a meter.
We do not have many tools left just barely the basics.
You are right that the testing the GPR with just a finger is not always conclusive - and we will be testing the new one this morning with a meter.
We do not have many tools left just barely the basics.
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One of the big posts on the GPR should show battery voltage with the key off, 12 - 13v. When you first turn the key on, the other large post should show about 1 volt less than battery voltage for a few seconds up to two minutes. And just to be safe, you don't have a GPCM on the truck do you? Just the GPR and AIH relay's next to each other, right?
Unplugging the EOT before a cold start will make the computer assume cold temps and turn the glow plugs on for a full two minutes while starting. As soon as it does start it will assume a fully warmed up engine so I'd expect some smoke and a rough idle since the timing will be adjusted.
Great news about the clean intake. That was a worst case scenario.
Unplugging the EOT before a cold start will make the computer assume cold temps and turn the glow plugs on for a full two minutes while starting. As soon as it does start it will assume a fully warmed up engine so I'd expect some smoke and a rough idle since the timing will be adjusted.
Great news about the clean intake. That was a worst case scenario.
The GPR voltage is correct. (finger test proved correct this time)
Unplugged the EOT. Truck would still not start.
GP could be heard heating - (sizzling type sound)
New
Someone mentioned that the spring? could be stress worn in the FPR? But could not figure how that would have anything to do with the truck not wanting to Cold Start.
Could it have anything to do with the EBPS maybe being plugged up?
Last edited by CosmoStarr; Mar 30, 2011 at 05:11 PM. Reason: Added another question about EBPS
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Texas
No smoke while cranking means the injectors are not even trying to fire. Hard to believe the injectors would be worn with that low of mileage so that leaves electrical issues. It's not your FPR spring or the EBPS. How low did battery voltage drop while cranking?
If you were willing to drive to Vegas, would you be willing to drive to Phoenix? Having a scanner on it would really be helpful to understand what's going on. Give these folks a call. Strictly Diesel, Diesel Vehicle Repair and Maintenance Dennis there is top notch and will get you taken care of. I bought my AE from him, but he also has a repair shop now after the merger.
If you were willing to drive to Vegas, would you be willing to drive to Phoenix? Having a scanner on it would really be helpful to understand what's going on. Give these folks a call. Strictly Diesel, Diesel Vehicle Repair and Maintenance Dennis there is top notch and will get you taken care of. I bought my AE from him, but he also has a repair shop now after the merger.
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Driving to Vegas - is a medical necessity. Also the reason we need to move back to NV.
There is some black smoke when cranking - not much but some.
When it does start after being plugged in it does give a bit of black smoke as well.
There is some black smoke when cranking - not much but some.
When it does start after being plugged in it does give a bit of black smoke as well.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Texas
That's kind of an important detail. No smoke while cranking is completely different than some smoke while cranking. It tells us what the injectors are doing and will give clues on what to watch for or rule out. Now it doesn't sound as electrical as it did before.
What oil did you use when you changed it? Did you check battery voltage while cranking? Got any place you can pick up a hydraulic gauge and some fittings? Without a scanner, you can remove the ICP sensor and just screw a mechanical gauge in the hole and watch that while cranking. You need a min. 500 psi to start, and if all is well, it will max out between 2,000 - 3,000 psi while cranking.
What oil did you use when you changed it? Did you check battery voltage while cranking? Got any place you can pick up a hydraulic gauge and some fittings? Without a scanner, you can remove the ICP sensor and just screw a mechanical gauge in the hole and watch that while cranking. You need a min. 500 psi to start, and if all is well, it will max out between 2,000 - 3,000 psi while cranking.