automatic transmission clutches
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Elder User
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From: So. California
automatic transmission clutches
I am building a 359W to put in a F-100 prerunner. I want to build an AOD to run behind my 359W. My main question is why would adding clutches to the direct, foward, intermediate and reverse clutch assemblys be better?
Basically I have read that you take all the best 4R70 parts from '96 to '98 and put them into an older AOD case with an aftermarket one piece input-shaft, good cooler and a constant pressure valve body you are in good shape. I can post my build recipe/shopping list if this thread goes anywhere.
To restate, my main question is what is the reason for adding clutches to an automatic transmission and how pertinent is it with excellent cooling?
Basically I have read that you take all the best 4R70 parts from '96 to '98 and put them into an older AOD case with an aftermarket one piece input-shaft, good cooler and a constant pressure valve body you are in good shape. I can post my build recipe/shopping list if this thread goes anywhere.
To restate, my main question is what is the reason for adding clutches to an automatic transmission and how pertinent is it with excellent cooling?
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Oaklnad TN
The addition of clutches to the mentioned drums will add the the durability of the overall trans if done correctly. The more surface area you have to work with the more torque the unit can handle. It will also aid some in cooling as more clutch material will be used to transfer loads.
All that being said, the more important thing is clutch pack clearance during the build. Too much and you'll burn up, too little and you'll burn up. You didn't mention how much torque and horsepower your going to build in the engine. You need to build to the appropriate use. If is a drag truck you build one way if its a puller ( like heavy trailer loads) you would build a bit different. If its a daily driver you might just want to address the common problems and skip all the extra costs of a heavy duty build.
All that being said, the more important thing is clutch pack clearance during the build. Too much and you'll burn up, too little and you'll burn up. You didn't mention how much torque and horsepower your going to build in the engine. You need to build to the appropriate use. If is a drag truck you build one way if its a puller ( like heavy trailer loads) you would build a bit different. If its a daily driver you might just want to address the common problems and skip all the extra costs of a heavy duty build.
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The engine is a 359W. Ported heads 1.94"/1.60". Schneider Racing 270/218 hydraulic flat-tappet camshaft. Holley 4150 650 CFM carburator. I am not decided on vacume or mechanical secondaries yet. The truck it is to go in will be a F-100 prerunner. I want to run some dunes but I have a tendancy to drive fast like 75 mph down the interstate for extended periods of time. If I put 3,000. lbs of rocks in the bed i will be sure to disable O/D.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Oaklnad TN
That cam is 5800 rpm tops and its a mid level dual pattern. With the valve work and some good porting you should do well. For the Transmission I would definitely throw the goodies in since you're going to be dune running. You'll need to get the proper gearing and match the torque converter. I would put the extra clutches in if it were me.
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From: So. California
Ok so then I should be getting some 4R70 drums to hold more clutches steels and frictoins?
TCCoA Transmission Article - Page 12
Is this mechanical diode and reverse drum a good buy?
AODE/4R70W Reverse Drum W/Mechanical Diode - eBay (item 120005675984 end time Apr-11-11 13:32:22 PDT)
With clutches and frictions it appears that there are brown, red and blue, with red alto being the norm'. Should I go for blue?
I am leaning toward Hughes input shaft which they told me uses a C6 torque converter.
TCCoA Transmission Article - Page 12
Is this mechanical diode and reverse drum a good buy?
AODE/4R70W Reverse Drum W/Mechanical Diode - eBay (item 120005675984 end time Apr-11-11 13:32:22 PDT)
With clutches and frictions it appears that there are brown, red and blue, with red alto being the norm'. Should I go for blue?
I am leaning toward Hughes input shaft which they told me uses a C6 torque converter.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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From: Oaklnad TN
I buy allot of parts from these guys. Haven't had a bad one yet. They also sell on Ebay.
Ford AODE 4R70W Transmission Parts, TransmissionpartsUS.com
You may have to drop them an email for any details you need but it is cheaper and already rebuilt.
That article is good. I don't think you'll go wrong following their build outs.
Ford AODE 4R70W Transmission Parts, TransmissionpartsUS.com
You may have to drop them an email for any details you need but it is cheaper and already rebuilt.
That article is good. I don't think you'll go wrong following their build outs.
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From: So. California
I just picked up two junk AODs for $50./each. They were E9s-, I mean '89s. I tore just one of them down and began trying to identify parts. Finally I cleaned the bare case. It needs more cleaning but looks much better. The tranny's were leaking out blackened fluid.
Ok, here is what I found; three enormous diameter clutches. The front-most drum attatched to the input-shaft (foward-drum?) had 5 clutches. The reverse-clutch pack which had a racheting-cog on it, had 4-clutches. The direct-drum or rear-most with the output shaft had 5-clutches. The O/D band was only 1.5" wide and strapped around that middle drum with the racheting cog. In the back I found another band that looked like three bands woven together and measured 1-7/8" wide. I found no obvious signs of damage to any component.
I have read much on how automatic transmissions work but I need help with how the clutch packs work.
Ok, here is what I found; three enormous diameter clutches. The front-most drum attatched to the input-shaft (foward-drum?) had 5 clutches. The reverse-clutch pack which had a racheting-cog on it, had 4-clutches. The direct-drum or rear-most with the output shaft had 5-clutches. The O/D band was only 1.5" wide and strapped around that middle drum with the racheting cog. In the back I found another band that looked like three bands woven together and measured 1-7/8" wide. I found no obvious signs of damage to any component.
I have read much on how automatic transmissions work but I need help with how the clutch packs work.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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From: Oaklnad TN
Your best bet is to start with an ATSG manual and if you can get your hands on one, a full blown Ford service manual for the AOD. Ebay is a pretty good place to get both. Others may have more info. I've never been in an AOD but most ford transmissions work in similar ways. The specifics you'll need are in the manuals. There are tons of guys here that have great success with AOD's and they are a great resource. These guys Baumann Electronic Controls Home Page are also a great place to start your quest.
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From: So. California
I found that there is an Alto Red power pack which employs thin steels to fit 8-clutch plates in the direct drum. Will thin steels hold as much power and torque as standard thickness steels?
I also wanted to compare Raybestos Reds to Alto Reds.
And finally I want to hear what people think about Raybestos Blue clutches.
I also wanted to compare Raybestos Reds to Alto Reds.
And finally I want to hear what people think about Raybestos Blue clutches.
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